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shim size all over the place.....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chopperjake
  • Start date Start date
C

Chopperjake

Guest
1982 gs1100 gk.

hadn't run for the first year i owned it while i was going through it.

I checked all the valve clearances and it seemed like some were a little tight - like i was swapping 2.50's for 2.45's or whatever.

Finally had it running for maybe 20 total minutes off and on until i jammed up the effing cam chain.

Finally got that all sorted out but when i had the valve cover off I thought i'd recheck my clearances. Now I did have the cam out while I jacked with the chain, but then tightened it all back down to torque specs.

So SOME of my clearances were still good (mostly on the exhaust side), and ONE on the intake side was fine, but THREE were like WAY OFF. I swapped two 2.50's for like two 2.90s (and the clearance is back to 0.03 mm, so I'm happy with that), but my other one I swapped a 2.50 for a 2.95 and it's still like 0.17 mm open.

Doesn't that seem weird? Why would they all be so far off all of a sudden? Something get loosened up after I put 20 minutes of RPM's through it?

It turns over (by hand) just fine now. Haven't put the battery back in yet.

Any thoughts?
 
Not sure what jamming up the cam chain means, but im guessing it was loose? Tensioner problem?
Hopefully its not bent valves......
 
tensioner was bad. chain was loose. engine got locked up while trying to turn it over. but that's all fixed now. new tensioner. chain is tight. turns over fine.
 
Was the engine running when the chain "jammed"? :-k

If it was, I would put my money on bent valves. :-\\\

.
 
Actually no. I hit the starter and it went "thunk". I haven't taken the top end off, but it turns over fine now and it's clear that the "thunk" was from the loose cam chain. (see my other thread for that fiasco....)
 
It may not have be 'running' on gas, but being powered by the starter motor is close enough.

There was sufficient inertia involved. Time to look for a replacement head.

.
 
I'd pull the head and check it out. You may just need a couple replacement valves.
 
I know you guys are probably right, but you know how you try to doubt the facts when you really don't WANT it to be right?

It seems unlikely that I would bend 3 valves all on the exhaust side and nowhere else, doesn't it?

I was thinking maybe since my #1 intake clearance was good, but my #3 and #4 intake were wide open that maybe I tightened down the cam too much on the left side of the bike and so the right side of the cam didn't get pulled down as far, even though I torqued it to spec. (I know the bolts were way over-tightened when I took it off).

I was thinking about trying to loosen and re-tighten the cam more evenly to see if it evens out.

Plus when my cam chain gave me issues I thought about taking off the head and was going to, BUT THOSE BOLTS WERE TIGHT!!!!! :mad:

And I really don't want to be breaking off bolts, because I broke off 3 the first time I took off the valve cover and then I was so mad that I didn't touch the bike for a year....

1. Any chance if I re-tighten my cam that the clearances will improve?
2. Can I just try compression test with the starter to see if it's good and then not pull my head?

thanks for all the input.
 
By all means, try a compression test.

The only way the cam bearing caps could be causing a problem is if the caps are not seated on the head.
 
The extra clearnce was from the pans being bent and thus drawing he stems further down. The guys are right dude...bent valves.
 
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damn......

damn......

Ok, I'm warming up to the crappy idea of pulling the head. (I'm not intimidated by the idea of replacing valves, just nervous about snapping off a stud).

Chuck, I'm not sure what you meant by "pans" being bent. Is it in this diagram?



Any good ideas on how to get off 40 year-old bolts? :confused:
 

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The valve itself..we used to call them PANS way back when. They looked like the bottom of a pan from the bottom. The stems bend and they dont seat again..thus they make the clearances all jacked up. The compression check will show that in an instant.
 
Just a little follow up........you guys were right. There, I said it.

In the interest of science I went ahead and did a compression test - my #1 is like 150 (that's the one that didn't need shim changed), #2,3,4 all basically a big, fat ZERO!!!!

So here I go, pulling the head off.......any advice? I'm soaking with PB now. Does it matter what order I remove in (because they tell you to tighten them in a criss-cross pattern from inside to out). Any other tips for not snapping **** off?

thanks for all the help. ****ed that I took a bike with good compression (I had checked before) and got running (YAY!) and now F'd it all up because the damn cam chain tensioner was bad.

:)
 
Loosen the head nuts in reverse order. There are numbers cast into the head. Remove the small screws first though before you go after the main head nuts. When removing the head nuts do it in stages. Do them all 1/2 turn or so and then start again with another 1/2 turn.

OEM gaskets and seals are best. Whatever you do don't get any gaskets made by Athena (green gaskets).

And remember, it's only a "mistake" if you do something wrong twice.
 
GOT IT!!!!! WOOHOOO!!!!!! :D :):cool:

The ecstasy of everything coming apart like it should!!!!

I ordered a new head from ebay. I could have just ordered valves, but the one I ordered I got for $75 delivered, plus it has some stuff I could sell back to recoup my losses - has all the valves in it, all the shims, carb boots. Plus I had boogered up 3 of my valve cover bolt holes previously and only ever got one tapped back right. (Although magically it hasn't leaked with my orange silicon? "RealGasket" - I'm a big fan of them now).

thanks everyone for the help. I'm super-pumped to get moving forward on this thing. I slightly regret screwing it up in the first place, but I'm happy to get intimate with my bikes and I've never redone a top end before, so as long as I get her back on the street, C'est la vie!!!
 
Take the old valves out and maybe post pics of them from the side..and some of the valve seats for informational purposes of anyone visiting this thread. AND how do the tops of the pistons look? I think I would pull the jugs and see if there was any damage to the piston skirts if they had been forced to kink to one side as the valves hit home. Be sure the rods arent jimmied any as well.

Basically waht I am saying is to check it all out as the impact has ripple effects down the entire chain...know what i mean??/
 
Ok Chuck,

I'm listening. You haven't steered my wrong yet.

By "jugs" I'm sure you mean the cylinders. Basically all I should have to do is lift them off at this point since the top end is out, right?

I guess I don't want to get in over my head. If I pull the jugs, am I compelled to replace all the piston rings? Will I need a ring compressor to get it back together? Will I need to replace the gasket between the cylinders and the case? (the one between cylinders and top end looks to be in very good shape - i was going to reuse it).

My pistons don't SEEM to have any damage that I can see.....but I'm open to it if it can be done without too much hassle.
 

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Well you have already decompressed the base gasket so its gonna leak most likely if you try to reuse it. I dont know of anyone that has reused a base gasket sucessfully. Its not anything I would ever do thats for sure.

As for new rings. well its gonna be open so what the heck is my approach when I do an engine. And for setting the jugs back on. All you need is some pop sickle stick to press the rings in and you tap the jugs back down. I dont have any pics stored, but someone surely does of the piston setting on wood to stabilise them when setting the jugs back on.

Small strips of wood on each side of the pistons laying across the holes in the lower cases. Turn the crank till all 4 pistons setting on the sticks and then you get the jugs on. Wiggle the crank a little to remove the sticks and finish setting the jugs down. Put on the head gasket and heads and start buttoning it up.
 
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