Simple job turned into nightmare.

[bikerzx7r1981]

So my project gs 1000

Took the exhasut off today, as it has a couple of holes where the 4-1 section joins and has been filled with the cold weld stuff.

So after a number of days squirting the screws i took them out, all easy untill the missle one started coming out fine then just snapped...

A friedn has said get stud extractor, but i think the engine fins are in the way.

any one offer any advice, i thought of welding a botl onto it, but mighty be risky... any help appreciated.

 

[hampshirehog]

Are you on about the bolts that go in to the cylinder head?

 

[chuck hahn]

Take a picture of what left in the head..this will help us troubleshoot. There are several ways to address the issue, but then again it cant be addressed on the blind. Whatever you do..DO NO NO NOT use easy outs!!!!!! You can weld a nut onto the stud is theres enough sticking out, you can drill down the center of it and collapse it into itself, I have a set of craftsman stud extractors that I have used sucessfully. Post a picture and then we can add out assesments.

 

[chuck hahn]

IF theres enough sticking, slip a nut thats bigger than the stud over it and weld the nut on really good. Then let it cool and use LOTS of PB Blaster or other PENETRATING oil. GENTLY work the bolt back and forth slowly working it out a little more each time. This back and forth motion will break down the rust and will help work the oil in deeper..keep spraying it and working it out. Patience and slowly working on it is the key.

 

[Nessism]

any one offer any advice, i thought of welding a botl onto it, but mighty be risky... any help appreciated.

Weld away. The welding heat will loosen the bolt while you are at it.

 

[Motocrossx23]

NO EASY OUTS!!!

Unless you want to drill through even HARDER steel when it snaps off, do not use them.

Seriously the worst tool ever made.

Weld a nut to the bolt, when it's still hot put some elbow grease into it. Lots of PB buster and it should come out.

Worst case scenario you can drill out the bolt and tap the hole.

 

[bikerzx7r1981]

Are you on about the bolts that go in to the cylinder head?

Sorry yeah its the bolts that go in the head

 

[bikerzx7r1981]

Yeah I think welding maybe the way forward. I dont have one but will get bidding on ebay

 

[keman]

When this happened on my bike (x3), I ended up drilling them out then re tapping them to the next size bolt up. Went up to 5/16 nf SAE if I remember. Put some anti seize on all of them.

 

[hampshirehog]

If you haven't got a welder there are a few other ways to try first.

Is there enough thread sticking out to get a nut on? If so pop one on and either do the 2 nut trick (unlikely you have that much thread showing) or mullah the threads so that the nut sticks.

No thread showing - try whacking a flathead screwdriver in there and impacting out. You don't have to make a perfect head to unscrew the thing.

The other method is to chisel the thing out. Tap it round using a sharp wood chisel that you no longer use for carpentry.

And squirt plenty of 3-1 Professional penetrating oil down the thread. WD40 does NOT work.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

No welder? Rent one?

No welder? Rent one?

They don't have places that rent tools in your berg?

 

[bikerzx7r1981]

If you haven't got a welder there are a few other ways to try first.

Is there enough thread sticking out to get a nut on? If so pop one on and either do the 2 nut trick (unlikely you have that much thread showing) or mullah the threads so that the nut sticks.

No thread showing - try whacking a flathead screwdriver in there and impacting out. You don't have to make a perfect head to unscrew the thing.

The other method is to chisel the thing out. Tap it round using a sharp wood chisel that you no longer use for carpentry.

And squirt plenty of 3-1 Professional penetrating oil down the thread. WD40 does NOT work.

There is still a fair bit left, ( 20mm) so could maybe just get two bolt... can you explain the two bolt trick please?

 

[bikerzx7r1981]

They don't have places that rent tools in your berg?

Yeah but its a only a few pounds of buying a new one really.

 

[Normk]

Unless you can weld a nut to the protruding piece or double nut as have been suggested, heat it to red hot and apply some parafin wax (a candle or canning wax) to it as close to the surface of the main structure as possible while it is cooling. After it cools, heat and wax again. Try to turn it out by use of a stud extracter, drive an old socket onto the end, etc. If it won't turn, repeat. The wax travels up the threads and acts to release and lubricate better than anything. Old trick but really works. Don't bother with WD40 as it is useless except as a cleaner. Most penetrating oils are almost equally poor. Automatic transmission oil or engine oil can be very good if can get them in there but beware of the fumes.

Soaking heat seized fastners with any penetrating fluid is a very, very faint hope. It's one of those, "may as well try as no hurry and can spray several times each day for a week or so..." things.

As someone said, photos may help a lot in terms of advise. Easy-outs are very useful devices but not in the hands of the untrained. I've removed dozens of broken ones but no use in adding to your grief. Avoid them unless you understand their application. I wrote a piece on them and extraction in an earlier thread which may contain something useful.

The biggest factor is not not get into a hurry and make things worse. "What can be worse than a seized and broken bolt?", you say. Don't discover an answer to that question because one has to experience only one of the answers to that question to be in a world of hurt! What you have is not a big deal for an experienced technician and if you are careful + considered in action you will develop some useful experience.

If you do have to repair the hole, heli-coils, inserts, a step stud, or oversize bolt are all possibles but please do not use inch sized ones as this is just asking for some problem in future. When I worked in the trades, we have many colorful terms to describe the ancestry of people who did this!

Don't hurry and make sure that the advise you use comes from someone who knows something about the subject. Far too many people who have read some web stuff on the subject or got lucky once or twice who will advise. There are several people here who are practiced in this area so listen and you should be OK.

Photos!

 

[Normk]

Some of this thread may be useful: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=185000

 

[bikerzx7r1981]

cheers for the help all, tried to put a nut on it today but just cant get it to bite, thread maybe damaged... so maybe welding is next... trying to find someone with a welder for two seconds worth of world

 

[duaneage]

Some of the bolts go all the way through to the area where the spark plugs are. You might be able to treat it from the backside as well. Generally speaking these are best dealt with by drilling out, one step bit at a time until the bolt can be picked out of the hole.

I used studs on mine so this will never happen to me. The stud kit was about 12 dollars, worth every penny.

 

[silverhorse47]

This doesn't look like a job for a person who can't drill an on-centre, in-line hole, with a hand held drill while lying on their side on the ground, and have confidence doing so. Such people do exist, however. For sure the collars and pipes have to be removed, and chances will be better with the wheel removed as well. I would probably remove the head and put it on the bench, but I'm old.
Duane is correct when he says it should be done in increments, from a small diameter bit to one just smaller than the thread size of the bolt. This is exactly the point at which one would normally use an easy out with success.
Easy outs are great tools, and they do break when too much is asked of them. However, they do not break when they are asked to do what they claim to do....which is remove a small shell of metal with a bit of thread attacked to it, from a seized hole in a vital engine part.
I get that people have had bad experiences with them, and it is indeed awkward when they snap off. But they don't snap off if enough metal is drilled out, a bit at a time, from the core of the seized bolt. They do break if hammered into a skinny little hole in a huge bolt and apply massive torque to them. In my experience, it harder to drill the first small holes in the bolt, than to actually use the easy out to advantage.
When properly applied they work like magic in the worst of conditions. Take your time. Use high quality bits. Get your hole started square and true, and then go right through to the bottom of the bolt till you feel the bit exit. Go easy. Use lots of cutting fluid. Then back the bit out and drill again with the next size up. When the bolt has only a wee shell of metal holding the threads together, use the easy out.

S.

 

[duaneage]

If you decide to drill make a drill guide from a piece of aluminum in a drill press that can assist in the process. Start with the smallest size of about 1/8 inch. Then every step of the drill bit size return it to the drill press and drill the guide hole first. This takes time, and that is what you need to take.

Eventually the guide hole will get to 1/4 inch which is darn near the bolt wall. I would pick out the remains, run a tap through the threads to finish it, and consider it done.