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speedometer relation to odometer

  • Thread starter Thread starter snicrep5
  • Start date Start date
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snicrep5

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After getting my bike on the road I was at first ecstatic that I was going so fast with such ease.:D However I soom noticed that when at 90 indicated, utility truck pulling trailers, and women in ford focuses were passing me.:mad: So now I know the spedometer is optimistic. Im still trying to gain a reference point as to actual mph. Im waiting to pull along side a car with a digital speedo. I could go 60 ind and count off between mile markers but going that slow is no fun and im probably going more like 50. I did observe my odometer between 2 known mile markers and it was spot on. Am i to assume that the odometer and speedometer arent running off of separate mechanisms?:-k Id like to think my speedometer is relatively correct and there are just alot of lead foots out on the highway. thanks.
btw when you "metric people" discuss speed, can you translate it to mph for us bacward americans please?:o
 
Don't automatically trust any vehicle's speedometer, digital or analog.
noway.gif


Do you have a GPS? It's easy enough to strap it or tape it somewhere on the bike where you can see it to check your speed.

I have found all of our speedometers to be reasonably accurate. At an indicated 70 mph, my GPS shows 69 on my GS, 68 on my wife's and 71 on my Wing.
My van is also within 1 mph, but my wife's car is off by about 2 or 3 at 70.

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I notice the speedo becomes optimistic and reads higher as the front tire wears. At higher speeds it's more pronounced, but mine is always off by 2 or 3 mph.
If you need an accurate reading the cop that gives you a ticket usually has a written result to give you,
 
only gps i have is in my phone and its not a "smart phone".
i suspect its off by 9 or 10 mph. On the MOTORCYCLE SPECS site, which is apparently british, they have a review of an 83 gs1100ez, wherein its stated that at 5000 rpm its going 75mph. on my 83 gs 1100 ed, it indicates 85 at 5000.
 
What size tire is on the front ? My 850 calls for a 100/90/19 I am using a 110/90/19 and the speedo is more accurate
 
Bike speedometers are typically optimistic. Assuming 10% is usually not too far off but as most of us like to know where the magic limit is so as to avoid official sanction checking your own machine with GPS is usually the best. When touring, I go exclusively by the GPS speed although have noted the main speed differences. I have recalibrated many bike and automotive speedos so if it really annoys you could consider doing that.

The odometer is usually more accurate than is the speedo but more difficult to adjust calibration because it is a direct geared drive. The most practical means of adjusting that function is to change the drive gear but that is not simple in theory or practice unless mass produced parts are available.

Here's a photo of a GS speedo with housing removed. One can see the odometer section with the disk shaped needle drive drum to the right. The drive inserts into the spindle on the further right. I can describe some of the procedures required if someone has interest.
 
Here's a photo of a GS speedo with housing removed. One can see the odometer section with the disk shaped needle drive drum to the right. The drive inserts into the spindle on the further right. I can describe some of the procedures required if someone has interest.

Norm, I've rebuilt dozens of these to get them working smoothly again but there would be a lot of interest if you know how to calibrate the speedo accurately.

I know Ashley Pople (the guy who makes a living restoring old British instruments) and he won't touch these. I can't contemplate the level of skill he uses to do his work and it would be sweet to pop in to his workshop and have boast.:p

Incidentally a plug for Ashley. If you have a knackered speedo or tach off any British he can make it waaay better than new at a decent price.
 
I used my GPS. The 550 was spot-on up to 50 mph, then 2 mph optimistic at 60 and 70. The speedo on my old V65 Honda was 10% optimistic.
 
Yes, as Norm stated, the odometer is directly geared to the speedo cable drive. The speedometer needle on the other hand moves in relation to the rotating magnetic dome mechanism which is not direct acting. As the magnetic field between the drive changes, the accuracy of the speedometer changes.

I've been inside a few Suzuki speedometers and have no clue how to calibrate them or how to reduce the needle oscillation which is so common. I'd also love to learn...
 
only gps i have is in my phone and its not a "smart phone".
i suspect its off by 9 or 10 mph. On the MOTORCYCLE SPECS site, which is apparently british, they have a review of an 83 gs1100ez, wherein its stated that at 5000 rpm its going 75mph. on my 83 gs 1100 ed, it indicates 85 at 5000.
If the rear tire is bigger the bike will go faster at 5000 RPM. I went down to a 110 tire and saw my RPMS go up almost 750 at speed.
 
If the rear tire is bigger the bike will go faster at 5000 RPM. I went down to a 110 tire and saw my RPMS go up almost 750 at speed.

Yes, the tire diameter will have an effect; larger tires will reduce the rpm's for any given speed. Changes like this are pretty subtle though; you won't see the rpm's drop 750 just by moving a tire size or two.
 
How would you compare the speedometer against one of those radar speed trailers you see the cops put out then? I ran by one and saw what it said matched my speedometer but I don't know if it is always right.
 
What is the wheel diameter on the front wheel. It is where the drive for the speedo is located.

Is it possible some well meaning person traded a small wheel for a larger one?
 
The oscillation is usually caused by binding of the speedometer cable with the housing. In a few cases we came to the conclusion that the issue was a cable and housing which were worn so that the cable whipped from side to side within the housing and so apparently created differences in rotation. There may be other causes unknown to me but those are the ones with which I recall dealing.

One aspect of speedo operation which someone may be able to offer illumination is that of slow reaction to speed changes. I came to the conclusion that a sticky needle shaft is not the cause of a few old ones from elderly low mileage bikes. My own 1979 GS850G is around 34 years of age with only 31,000 km (18,600 miles) which is around 900 km (550 miles) per year. Obviously, the old girl spent 90-something% of the time parked as the average speed is only about 1/10 mph and it couldn't have been moving that slowly.;)

I'm wondering if the rotor magnet has caused magnetizing of the drum? Didn't think of that until reinstalled the speedo after servicing and re-lubing the mechanism. We used to de-gauss vehicle roofs, boats and other stuff because of compass interference. I'm wondering.....

Wish someone had suggested that as it would have been interesting to try an AC field from a solder gun to see if it would de-gauss the drum....wondering about affecting the magnet rotor but that should be shielded by the drum.....???....

Any thoughts?
 
How would you compare the speedometer against one of those radar speed trailers you see the cops put out then?
My son call those "high-score signs". Some of his friends try to see what numbers they can get to show on them. :eek:

They are accurate, but I would only trust it if you are the ONLY thing within sight that is moving.

Traffic radar does not 'lock' on the closest or the fastest, as many people think. It locks on to the best reflector. You could be a couple hundred yards away from that radar trailer, probably not close enough yet to have it read you. If there is a semi-truck about 1/4 mile behind you, it WILL get picked up. You see the truck's speed and think it's yours. :-k

Yeah, it works that way out on the highway, too. That's why officers are using LIDAR (lasers) instead of RADAR. The actual accuracy of speed is about the same, but the accuracy of target is improved to the point that they can pick a motorcycle out of a bunch of cars and/or trucks, where they could not do that with RADAR.

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Install a Sigma brand bicycle computer. Program in the diameter of the wheel assembly that you attach the magnet/sensor to. That should be within about 2%. (Sigmas indicate speeds well over 100 mph. Most others don't.)
 
Someone mentioned recalibrating the speedo so thought to reference in a separate post from the other one containing the magnetic reference.

Obviously, changing the speed of the front wheel by changing tire diameter/tire & wheel diameter will change indicated speed as related to actual speed over the ground. Changing the gear ratio between the drive and driven speedo gears will affect speedometer indication also but this is a technique common to automobiles but difficult to apply to bikes in practice.

The rate of needle progression versus speed (RPM of the speedo cable) is a function of the torque transmitted from the magnetic rotor (driven by the cable) to the reaction drum which is connected to the needle. The rotation of the needle is opposed by the clock spring which links the needle or needle shaft to a fixed mounting.

In order to change the relationship of cable RPM to needle indicated position one can change the strength of the clock spring, magnetic rotor but these are also difficult to do in practice.

In my experience, bike speedometers tend to be out by a fairly consistent percentage which is most noticeable at higher speeds because the difference in distance covered seems to be more evident. Testing around town, for example, and shown that the percentage tends to be consistent.

For this reason, I have been less concerned with attempting to "re-map" the speedometer's relationship and have concentrated on simply repositioning the needle within its existing range.

Those who have serviced speedometers, tachometers and other mechanical indicating devices will be well aware of all of the above, agree with much of it and have valid differences in view point. I apologize to these people for taking so much band width but do try to place my information within as much context as possible for those who have not been involved in the subject at hand.

One could, for example, reposition/retension the clock spring in order to create a different spring rate in order to affect needle movement versus cable RPM but I have found it to be most workable to simply reposition the needle on the needle shaft to point the needle to a more accurate representation of actual speed.

I usually use a procedure similar to the following:

1) Using an electric drill, turn the speedometer cable and observe the indicated speed on the speedometer head. Note that this is best if a speed in the 50 mph/80 kph range and that the drill speed must be able to be dupicated. For this reason I prefer a mains powered drill rather than a cordless model. Let's use 50 mph as the example speed although it is unlikely to be actually some even number.

2) Use a GPS or measured distance in order to determine the actual ground speed at this indicated speed. Again example 50 mph.

3) Remove speedo and acess the needle. Some machines have a sealed/encapsilated speedo head such as the GS while others have a speedo which is covered by a removeable common dash lens.

4) Refer to the actual speed and to the indicated speed when the speedo is driven. Let's say that the speedo indicates 55 mph when it is actually driven at an RPM which reflects a true ground speed of 50 mph. We want to reposition the needle so that the new position is pointing to 50 mph when driven by the drill.

5) In almost every case, and have done a lot of speedos and tachs (although less of an issue with a tach and one has to be seriously anal to care:p) it has been possible to carefully pry the needle hub outward by wedging from both sides evenly. Sometimes one has to be innovative to avoid too much force on the face plate etc. but judgment calls are difficult to describe. This has never been rocket science however.;)

6) When the needle as been removed from the shaft, one can slip it partially onto the needle shaft in the estimated new position, run the drill and recheck/reposition. This works well enough.

7) In most cases it is convenient to reach one finger onto the needle drum. In these cases, I simply rotate the needle to the correct indicate position, hold with one finger, use a marker to indicate the alignment position of the drum relative to some fixed point near the drum. When the needle has been removed, rotate the drum to the marked position, hold with one finger and press the needle partially into place.

8) Run the drill and check. Note since the needle hub is only partially onto the shaft, it is simple to hold the drum and to rotate the needle in the direction required in order to correct indication.

9) When satisfied with alignment, press the needle hub into position on the shaft, recheck and done!

What have I forgotten to mention...??....

Oh, yes. Take care not to attempt to use the needle as a means to apply torque to the drum. Especially in old speedometers, the needle may not be as strong as one expects and may be very brittle with age. Don't ask!:o

In some cases it may not be practical to pry the needle hub from the needle shaft or the needle may be snapped off from accidental handling. No biggie! Simply use your die grinder, small file or other to remove the covering paint/coating from the intended needle position and glue the needle to the hub. I....I mean someone told me.... that they found it best to rotate and to hold the drum with a finger and then to place the needle to the correct indicate position.

A piece of spacer material of the correct needle to face plate thickness should be placed across the indicate zone and anchored at each end by a bit of masking tape. The needle can then be dabbed with glue, positioned and held to the spacer with a small bit of masking tape. When dry the needle can be held against the anchor and tape rolled off. Or at least that's what a guy who wasn't careful enough and snapped a needle told me that he did.;)

I later used the same practice when couldn't risk any more force to remove a needle. Most pry off quite readily and in a few cases, have simply held the drum into the correct position and used the needle hub to rotate the hub while still in place.

Another very workable method is to create and print a new face plate which reflects a more accurate positioning of the speed under the existing needle position. Despite that this seems to be a more involved procedure....try it out and I think that you will agree....:)

As an aside, an acquintance made and shared by email, a new face plate to indicate the operating temperature in degrees F, of the KLR650 coolant temperature guage. Interesting but got some peoples' socks in a knot, however that's another story.;)

Anyone who is disassembling speedo heads for other service is over qualified for the above recalibration so it might not be best to confess to your buddy how simple it was for you to do this. You will both be happier if he thinks you performed some magic procedure which is impossible for ordinary mortals.;)
 
Here's one for you,is the GS1100L speedo different then the GS850G speedo??.The reason I ask is that I just swapped out my 850 forks for a set of 1100 forks and I had to use the 1100 wheel and as such I had to use the 1100 speedo drive because it was a different dia then the 850 drive.Now I'm wondering if the speedo is going to be off??.By the way my 2007 Vstrom speedo is 17% percent off at 60MPH.!!!!!!:eek:
 
Yes, the tire diameter will have an effect; larger tires will reduce the rpm's for any given speed. Changes like this are pretty subtle though; you won't see the rpm's drop 750 just by moving a tire size or two.
I did. I'd prove that a tire which is 3/4" smaller in installed diameter caused the engine to turn a lot faster but I don't feel like buying a 110 and swapping it out.
You'll just have to trust me. Or do it yourself.
 
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