Sport Demons vs Roadriders

[tkent02]

You would have to be an expert rider to need better traction/handling than the Avons provide, they are excellent tires. There is no safety advantage.

 

[Billy Ricks]

Safety margin's not a major factor for you? Biggest factor for me. Maybe I'm not destined to be in that 99%.

I believe what Joe meant is that superior performance and safety go hand in hand. A tire that sticks well in any condition is a safe tire.

 

[Turtleface]

You would have to be an expert rider to need better traction/handling than the Avons provide, they are excellent tires. There is no safety advantage.

Theoretically, if you accidentally were pushed to the limits of the Avon's traction, and still need more in order to avoid getting smooshed/highsided/lowsided/t-boned, the SD's could potentially save your life.

I'm not trying to be argumentitive for the sake of argument. It's sort of like overbuilding an engine. My next motor needs to be daily driveable, and able to withstand Phoenix summers, and still make lots of grunt. Now, when I get to the point where I'm building an engine, I won't need to daily drive the 1100E, and I probably won't ride it in 120 degree heat, but if I HAVE to, I want to be able to.

I guess I'm planning for the worst, and hoping for the best.

 

[tkent02]

You are learning to ride in Phoenix, on an 1100E, and you think some magic tires will make you safe?

OK.

 

[Joe Nardy]

Theoretically, if you accidentally were pushed to the limits of the Avon's traction, and still need more in order to avoid getting smooshed/highsided/lowsided/t-boned, the SD's could potentially save your life.

...only if you have the riding ability to take advantage of the Sport Demons or RoadRiders. My point was that 99% of street riders don't have the skills to use the full capabilities of either tire. Having a more capable tire won't do you any good if you aren't capable of exploiting those capabilities.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Sunburn]

Great discussion about tires I love this stuff.



Don't blow it with some gay argument about opinions.


Facts are hard to come by, opinions plentiful, take it for what it's worth and move on....

 

[Turtleface]

You are learning to ride in Phoenix, on an 1100E, and you think some magic tires will make you safe?

OK.

I technically live in Tempe,(traffic's not nearly as bad as Phoenix)an 1100E isn't scary unless you don't have the will power to ride sanely, and I think better tires will make me safer. However, I already said I wasn't trying to be argumentive, so this will be my last post regarding this particular issue. My apoligies if I've upset anyone. I'm merely trying to be scientific and logical about all this motorcycle business.

The essence of what I'm trying to say is this:

According to skilled, experienced, and trustworthy members of this forum, the Pirelli Sport Demon tires afford the greatest performance, and henceforth, the greatest traction. The greater traction would offer a great margin of error, and statistically, be a safer tire, regardless of riding style or experience. Bad situations can crop up unexpectedly with even the best of riders, and in the event that maintaining a safe following distance, constantly scanning for threats, and riding in an manner that minimizes risk in as effective manner as possible, I find myself in such an unexpected bad situation, I wish to have a machine that is as capable as it can be.

Again, sorry if anyone's taken offense to anything I've typed.

Back to your previously scheduled thread.

 

[Turtleface]

I But, recently, I found a combo that I absolutely LOVE. Im running an Avon RoadRider rear with an Avon Venom X front. The combo is, in my opinion, outstanding. Nice feedback from the road, great stickiness, and I got a whole season out of the rear, and plus on the front.

Do you just get more feedback from the front with the Venom, compared to the Road Rider front? What advantages does the Venom offer over the Road Rider, when fitted to the front?

 

[tkent02]

Bad situations can crop up unexpectedly with even the best of riders, and in the event that maintaining a safe following distance, constantly scanning for threats, and riding in an manner that minimizes risk in as effective manner as possible, I find myself in such an unexpected bad situation, I wish to have a machine that is as capable as it can be.

And yet, you are riding a thirty year old motorcycle, with something like half the braking and handling of a modern bike...
Amazing.

 

[49er]

Whatever tyre you choose, it takes quite a bit of experience to be able to fully evaluate it's worth.

They have to be scrubbed in and have their tyre pressures set correctly before you can begin to evaluate. Things that can confuse accurate evaluation are tired/sagging suspension,excessive play in steering head and wheel bearings, incorrectly graded fork oil (for your weight and riding style), over sized tyres for rim width, poorly performing brakes, brake disc run out, etc,etc.

At the end of the day, tyres are a major part of a bike's overall handling and riding package and provide a very small contact area with the stuff you are trying to stay upright on.

 

[Guest]

Having used both, I would suggest Turtle get the SD this time around, and the Avons to replace them, when worn. Going by his argument, I think he would be at a psychological disadvantage with the Avons (not necessarily based on reality), but that is the last thing you need when tipping the bike into a turn at high speed, or an emergency situation....I guess Joe prefers with the SD for precisely the same reason, actually.
I like both tires, I'll stick with the Avons (no pun intended) when this set is trashed, simply bec of the superior mileage they get. IMO, the Pirellis exhibit a freakishly short warm up time, probably by virtue of the softer compound, ( this probably isn't a factor in Arizona, but should be taken into account here, with Canadian cold weather riding), which isn't to say the Avons are unsafe....they are superior to designs that are a few years old, and light years ahead of anything available when these bikes were new....absent any gravel, you should be able to grind the footrests down to a nub before the tires let go, assuming you have the skill and confidence to do this.
To jinkyz, the 1100E has enough power/torque to break any rear tire loose if you shift aggressively whilst leaned over in a corner.....this happened to me once even with the Sport Demon, but the difference is that the wheel 'stepped out' in a very predictable/controllable manner, whereas some lesser tires would have caused a 'pucker moment' at the very least . Aggressive shifting is best done before/after entering a corner, not in it, but the Pirellis give the impression that they cannot be broken loose while cornering, leading the rider to push the envelope a bit.
Tony.l

 

[Turtleface]

Having used both, I would suggest Turtle get the SD this time around, and the Avons to replace them, when worn. Going by his argument, I think he would be at a psychological disadvantage with the Avons (not necessarily based on reality), but that is the last thing you need when tipping the bike into a turn at high speed, or an emergency situation....I guess Joe prefers with the SD for precisely the same reason, actually.

Tony.l

The mental bit is a good mention as well. I don't trust the physics of motorcycles enough to get myself really leaned over, and knowing this, I approach corners with great care. Also, the increased predictability of the tire, at all speeds, could lead to greater overall control. I'm also investigating the possibilities of a track day, my bike should be leak free in about four days or so. There's a few tracks out here, so it shouldn't be hard. Plus I've easy access to several large, empty parking lots, perfect for practicing emergency maneuvers at normal commuting speeds.

 

[salty_monk]

Also think of it this way... The Avon's wear better so where in the tyres mileage do you want to have your crash/hairy moment? If it's just after you fitted them then maybe the SD's could help you out if like Joe says you are skilled enough to use that 0.5% extra grip... if it's getting towards 6k miles you might be better off on the Avons.

What Joe's getting at & what I agree with is that the tyres are so close together in performance that safety shouldn't really be a factor. Joe might be safer on his SD's because he knows their performance margin etc. I would be better on the Avon's as I have a lot more experience of riding those....

I had 7k mile on one set of Avons on my 1000G with over 50% tread left. I have 3.5k miles on the other set & they look brand new still (on my 1000E).

My 750 Project is getting Pilot Powers - one of the stickiest road rubber's out there... ($240 a set so you can see the $$ of SD to RR's is not really an issue for me) I wonder if it will change my mind about tyres at all after some time spent riding that! ($240 a set is a very good price for those tyres & I suspect I'll get 6-7k out of them so at least a year the way I'm planning to use that bike).

I am 165lb & a lot of my miles are in Los Angeles so the straight line work I have to do to get to the twisties means the Avons work better for me. I Suspect I'll find that issue with the Pilot Powers to be honest but I wanted to at least give them a shot!

Dan

 

[TheCafeKid]

It's because it's an '83 ES. Huge improvement in handling over previous GSes.

True, but I had sub standard tires on it before, and it handled WAY worse than it does now. The nice high profile of the Avons make the bike feel much much lighter than it is in the steering dept. Turning in is much quicker and almost effortless. Like Brian said, if you're not ready for it, it will scare the bejesus out of you the first good turn you put it in.. . Ive also gone to great lengths to improve its handling characteristics, but, apples to apples, yes, its a better design, but the tires, compared to what it had on it before, make a larger difference than I would have suspected. I love the combo, and yes, ive used the RoadRider in front before, the Venom feels a little more aggro, which i like.

 

[bonanzadave]

And yet, you are riding a thirty year old motorcycle, with something like half the braking and handling of a modern bike

Things that can confuse accurate evaluation are tired/sagging suspension,excessive play in steering head and wheel bearings, incorrectly graded fork oil (for your weight and riding style), over sized tyres for rim width, poorly performing brakes, brake disc run out, etc,etc.

Its is unfortunate that your 27 year old Bike is a dinosaur but I respect your home work trying to make it all it can be.

Youll be draggin all sorts of hard shinny parts long before you push either brand tire over the edge.

It's because it's an '83 ES. Huge improvement in handling over previous GSes.

Really ? Better than a EZ or ED ?

Extra Stability ? Enhanced Suspension ?

 

[tkent02]

Its is unfortunate that your 27 year old Bike is a dinosaur but I respect your home work trying to make it all it can be.

Youll be draggin all sorts of hard shinny parts long before you push either brand tire over the edge.



Really ? Better than a EZ or ED ?

Extra Stability ? Enhanced Suspension ?

Smaller front wheel, completely new frame design, better brakes, smaller bike overall.... Huge difference in handling and braking.

 

[Guest]

Smaller front wheel, completely new frame design, better brakes, smaller bike overall.... Huge difference in handling and braking.

This probably applies to the smaller ES bikes (700/750) that benefited from upgrades, but the 1100 variety is essentially the same bike, with different cosmetics (square headlight with fairing & the blue/white scheme). I don't know if even the 1100 Kats had much changed, apart from the clip-on style bars, and different cosmetic package.:-k

Tony.

 

[tkent02]

This probably applies to the smaller ES bikes (700/750) that benefited from upgrades, but the 1100 variety is essentially the same bike, with different cosmetics (square headlight with fairing & the blue/white scheme). I don't know if even the 1100 Kats had much changed, apart from the clip-on style bars, and different cosmetic package.:-k

Tony.

OK, I thought the 1100 changed the same year as the 750.
Thanks.

 

[bonanzadave]

OK, I thought the 1100 changed the same year as the 750.

Maybe Josh's 1100 is better because of that Extra Special cargo...

 

[TheCafeKid]

Its is unfortunate that your 27 year old Bike is a dinosaur but I respect your home work trying to make it all it can be.

Youll be draggin all sorts of hard shinny parts long before you push either brand tire over the edge.



Really ? Better than a EZ or ED ?

Extra Stability ? Enhanced Suspension ?

Not better than an ED but better than an EZ. Hotter cams higher pegs but otherwise close. It's the best of the 1100s for sure