Stage 3 Dyno Jet Kit GS 1000 & Dyna III electronic ignit

[Anonymous]

Has anyone put a stage 3 Dyno Jet Kit In their GS 1000. This kit calls for aftermarket pipes (which I have) and individual filter pods (which I am getting). I am also adding a Dyna III electronic ignition and Dyna coils if they make them for the 79 gs1000 (if anyone knows this info would be helpful) I will also be adding a Pingel Petcock. There are a few reasons that I am performing these upgrades. First, I have the original coils still on the bike and the plug wires are beginning to dry rot. I believe these wires and coils are providing very week and inaccurate spark, which is causing me to miss on a cylinder every couple of strokes. Second, the valve handle on my original petcock is broken and I believe it is restricting my fuel flow. Third, I had a shop clean my carbs and something just doesn’t seem right. When I roll hard on the throttle the bike just kind of goes dead like it isn’t getting any fuel (this even happens at high rpm which it should not). All these problems are resulting in a MAJOR power loss like say 15-20 hp (just a guess) Anyhow, if anyone has any comments or suggestions they would be helpful. Thanks everyone and ride safe. Dan Rossiter

 

[Anonymous]

stage 3 dyno jet kit

stage 3 dyno jet kit

Sounds like whoever did your carbs didn't set them up right. If it was me I would take it back and ask them to do it right. My suggestion is to get that fixed before you start putting new stuff on. Get your original equipment running right before you start adding performance enhancing equipment. Or at least make sure you know what the problem is with the original equipment.

I think adding performance enhancing parts to a poorly running bike will probably just make the situation worse and drain your bank account.

But then again, maybe it's just me.

Good luck!

Junkman

 

[Anonymous]

Continuing with the aftermarket pipe and the suporting what was said in the previous post. --- As soon as the pipe was installed at least the carbs would have to be properly jetted to match the pipe
if the pipe was installed a while before you had the carbs cleaned then i would suspect that the pipe is not the type needed for re jetting. Did the bike run well after the pipes were installed but before the carbs were touched..It is importing to draw a picture of the times when things were done and how the bike ran after each thing.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Use the green Dyna DC1-1 3 ohm coils for electronic ign or DC8-1 if you still are using the points. Also a 79 GS 1000 has the older slide type carbs and will have a slight hesitation when give full throtle quickly. Every thing I have read leads me to believe that a stage 3 kit is only for a heavly modified engine

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice. Let me tell you a little more about the bike. The V&H pipe was installed before I purchased the bike, which was last year. The bike sat in a barn for six years and did not run when I bought it. However, I was in good condition and only had 27,000 miles on it. Thus, I know little about the bikes history but with only 27,000 miles on a solid engine like the GS1000 I am confident that structural integrity of the engine has not been compromised. If this were indeed the case would adding these parts not help the situation? Thank you for the advice Dan Rossiter

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

The biggest sugestion I would make is to get the STOCK air box. The air delivery is so critical you may never get it tuned correctly.

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps you are right about the air box. However, the stage3 jet kit I’ll be adding (providing my compression test turns out positive) is designed specifically to work in unison with the Filter Pods. I’m going to give it a try it and hope for the best. If everything works out this should really smooth out my torque curve.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The air filters are probably 80% or more of the reason for the jet kit. And yes,the kit is only accurate with the mod's they have in mind. By the way,you have this topic in 2 different sections. It makes it more difficult to follow what everyone has to say and what order they replied. Not a big deal, just a suggestion for the future. KK.

 

[Anonymous]

T-Dan,

Unless you are a masochist, like myself, don't do this! The 26 mm carbs cannot be tuned to make the bike run with any sort of drivability if you put on the seperate air filters. Period!
I have this mod on my bike and I love it at wide open throttle. At partial throttle it sucks!
While I'm no guru by any stretch of the imagination, I know my way around a set of carbs. I've had this thing jetted 9 ways to Sunday. I've taken it in and had it done by old timer pros. I've talked to everyone I could find from coast to coast to no avail.
If you want wide open throttle performance then do this now. If you are planning to drive the bike and expect any semblance of driveability then don't do it.
If anyone out there thinks they can tune these carbs, come to Winfield, IL. and prove me wrong. If you can get all three circuits on these carbs dialed in and running perfectly I'll pay for your trip.

Steve

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

To Wheelie.

To Wheelie.

Too bad you don't live nearby,because if you rode my bike you would'nt say those things.My bike has all the driveability as it had when new,except now I have about 10-15 more horsepower. I have a 1085 kit, a V&H pipe,106 cam timing,Dyna S and coils,but it was the K&N ovals and a Dynojet kit that brought out the power. I can shift into 5th gear at 30 mph and roll it on without any trouble. At 4500 it pulls hard up to 130+ on level ground. I can pull 1000 rpm more in top gear than I could stock. Often it seems I'm a gear too low because it's always pulling. I did try to find some 29mm smoothbores during my restoration,but it was holding up my project,but I'm happy with what I got. It sounds like you just got frustrated,but I went with the Dynojet kit. If you visit their site they explain how their kit is better than using the stock parts. Motorcyclist mag' back in'84 say they had trouble jetting with the stock parts. I had my tank off several times before I got it right,even with their instructions. Sometimes,nothing that's worth it comes easy. There could have been something wrong with your carbs that you missed. There's about 8 gazillion parts in the 4 of 'em,any of which could mess things up. I'm a perfectionist about my bike and I had patience. Jetting was not easy,but every time I ride her now I get rewarded. You disscourage someone from trying,but I say it's worth it. I'd love to take you up on your trip offer,but it's not realistic. I really am impressed with how my bike rides. At first I wondered if the performance parts would sacrifice something,but I did'nt even lose gas mileage. If you ever jet again,and your carbs are in good condition,and your mod's are like mine,try these settings:stock pilot jet #15,pilot screw(underneath)1 1/4-1 3/4 turns out,air/fuel mixture screw(side)2 1/2 turns out,Dynojet needle with clip in #3 position from top, no spacer,Dynojet main#142, and be sure to leave the 2 float bowl vent pipes attached and clear. The kit # is 3304.001 and costs about $120. Expensive,but so is your time. To me it's the best $ I spent,along with the Dyna ign' and the Electrex R/R. I know this kit works on the '78/79 carbs,but the '80 carbs had a modified pilot circuit(leaner)for emissions standards. The tip of the pilot screw is blunted and it's orifice to carb throat capped.There could be other changes,so I would check with Dynojet first if interested. KK.

 

[Don Lobacz]

As the owner of a GS1000 with 100,000+ miles, I can see this several ways. First, I feel that switching to K&Ns and rejetting alone does not significantly increase power: it may not even be noticeable. I would disagree with wheelie, however, that it can't be done. In fact, if you were doing it, I would recommend the pods without the jet kit. It will take tuning, but if you have the proper technique it is fairly straightforward (although it takes time and patience). The last GS1000 I tuned had cams that were way off (stock) and it would not run right until the cams were degreed. For pre-1980 bikes, degreeing the cams will almost always produce a significant improvement in power, especially in midrange. I would recommend that as a first step in power improvement. Wheelie, have you ever had your cam timing checked?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

ThunderDan1 says he has a V/H pipe. Coupled with the pods and correctly jetted,it WILL make more power. It has to. If air/fuel mixture can enter and exit the engine at a quicker rate it makes more power. Without a pipe would not make sense. If you add proper cam timing,you will see more improvement. If you add bigger pistons,even more. And you can keep going,but anything beyond this you are typically sacrificing dependability. If several people rode my bike, I bet many would make the changes. The only ones that would'nt would be the ones that don't want to spend time and money. As for jetting, I have heard others had problems with stock parts,so I went with the Dynojet kit and I'm happy. KK.

 

[Anonymous]

Firstly, I don't mean to scare you T-Dan and I hope that I don't monopolize your post. Maybe we'll both learn something here and you won't have the troubles I've had.
I'll list my whole engine set-up here so Don and Keith can have a better idea were I'm at on this thing.
'78 GS1000, std. bore, Mega-cycle cams on adjustable sprockets set where Mega-cycle said to put them. I can't find the card right now but they were only 1 step up from stock. V&H 4 into 1, K&N filters, ported heads (de-shrouded the valves and cleaned up the short side radius, done at a very reputable shop), DynoJet jet kit, Dyna III ignition and coils. I haven't checked what the jetting is on the bike is since I got it back from the last shop that worked on it.
The bike fires up instantly and you have to get off the choke fast. The bike is obviously running rich at idle. The 17.5 idle jets are in my parts kit so I'll assume the 15's are in the carbs. Just off idle the thing goes lean. And since this is where you wind up a lot of the time when you're cruising, I have to put up with a frequent lean missfire which goes away if you give it a little choke. Just try applying the brakes, down shifting and turning off the carb mounted choke at the same time. Oh, what fun! At WOT it seems a bit fat. The 142 main jets are in the box so again I assume the 137.5's are in the bike. The bike pulls strong and if I ran at wide open throttle all the time there wouldn't be much of a problem. Other than lots of tickets and other assorted consequences. I've never had this bike to the track but I put an educated guess in the mid to high 11 sec range. Now whats really fun is if you remove the baffel from the exhaust, this thing picks up power in a big way. It suprised a lot of people to see it run dead even with my friends 2000 YZF-R1. That R1 has numerous time slips in th mid 10 second range.
So, enough rambling on. What do you guy's think?

Steve

 

[Don Lobacz]

Where's Winfield.

Road trip in search of the missing midrange.

It sounds like it should be there. The nice thing about similar bikes/setups is that we can just drop in my carbs and tell something right away. Did I ever tell you the story about the carbs that were 'running fine' till winter, but somehow had pilots drilled out like mains... ? I have seen the wildest things in carbs that weren't supposed to be there (almost like little time bombs left by a previous owner). I have even seen needle jets worn to the point of needing replaced. Anything's possible, but we should have the tools to divide and conquer.

 

[Anonymous]

Thirty miles due west of Chicago. Turn right two blocks.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Wheelie you are welcome to jump into my posts any time. I'll take all the extra info I can get. Thanks

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Wheelie, I wish I knew what effect your porting and cam's have on the jetting. They could very well not be compatible with my jetting. Those mod's do sacrifice driveability,which is why I avoided them. It would seem that your bike would be quicker than mine,but mine is better mannered. Your Dynojet kit must be different than mine. My kit # is 3304.001, it did not come with a 17.5 pilot jet,( I use the stock #15) and my choice of mains were 138 or 142, and the needles may even be different. My kit is intended to be used with a 'good quality 4-1 pipe and K&N ovals'. Does yours allow for your cam's and porting? If not, then maybe your kit can't do the job. As for how your bike runs, I'll give what advice/experience I can. Rich at idle, you have the #15 pilots which is what I have and Dynojet says the pilot circuit MUST be stock. The only other things I adjusted were the pilot screws(underneath)1 1/4-1 3/4 turns out depending on which carb, and the side mixture screw 2 1/2 turns out. You are lean right off idle, this is where I had most difficulty. I insisted that the pilot had more effect at this point than the needle, that seemed to be the majority opinion. I ignored Dynojets instructions. I actually went up 5 sizes in pilot jet trying to richen it up, and got bad results. But I had an open mind about it and decided to focus on the needle position. After several tries it worked. I never knew the needle had that much 'overlap' effect at such a throttle position, but my 'spitting' as I call it, or else it is miss-fire as you describe, went away. The stumble I had when taking off from a light also went away. I was kind of pissed off over all the so called rules of jetting I had learned over the years, but I was happy to get it right. For my bike, getting that needle positioned fixed everything from just off idle all the way until the main takes over. This is your biggest complaint and like you said, it effects the majority of your riding. I would raise your needle 1 notch position and see what you get. You may even have to go more. I think it's better to do this yourself, you can keep notes and won't have possible lack of communication. If re-setting the needle does'nt work then I too would be stumped. But I learned the hard way that playing with the pilot is a waste of time, so it HAS to be the needle position. And as for your main, I'm a bit surprised that my bike would run the bigger main. Vance&Hines told me to go with the 142. The owner there said there was a lot of past experience with my exact mod's. He was right. I did first try the 138 and the top end suffered. But you say you're happy with the main. I know you say your carbs are in good condition and clean,but you would KNOW if you checked yourself. No shop cares as much as the owner. I would also check the float heighth. Manual says .90-.98'', and I set mine at .95/96. If it's just a bit low you could have lean problems. I would also make sure the 2 float bowl tubes are clear and stock length,about 18''. If they are shortened it can screw up fuel flow. I would also carb spray the gas tank cap vent. Some people also say the stock petcock makes flow problems. Well, that's all from me now, hope it was worth your time. Later, KK.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info Keith. I'll be starting on rejetting this week. As far as re-timing the cams, I see you have yours set a 106 degrees. RPhillips has a post where he moved his intake to 99 and exhaust to 103. Is there any genral rule of thumb as to where to put them?

Steve

 

[DJones]

I have a `78 GS 1000E with the dyna jet kit and the 29mm smoothbore carbs also a 4into 1 header with a kerker baffle. The power is awesome and midrange torque; is like a locomotive!

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Thanks for the info Keith. I'll be starting on rejetting this week. As far as re-timing the cams, I see you have yours set a 106 degrees. RPhillips has a post where he moved his intake to 99 and exhaust to 103. Is there any genral rule of thumb as to where to put them?

Steve

Hi. First of all I need to correct a mistake I made in previous reply:you must REMOVE the float bowl vent tubes. Fuel will not flow well if they are left on. I was just mixed up. Now as for cam timing suggestion,I read an article in the Dec.'84 Motorcyclist mag'. They built a '79 GS1000E project bike. Cam timing was one of their mod's. The idea was to increase power but without sacrificing dependability. I have always respected their opinions. Here is what they say:''Stock GS1000's often have intake-cam lobe centers of 115 or more degrees. With an intake cam this retarded,warm up is slow,the engine runs hot,carburetion is difficult to set correctly and the powerband is narrow in rpm. With intake-and exhaust -cam lobe centers set between 104-106 degrees,your Suzuki will have a broad powerband,excellent throttle response and the best compromise between peak and low-rpm power. The mileage will be at its best too.''
Here's more from their Oct.'80 issue on cam timing:''Intake valve closing angles and exhaust valve opening angles are the most critical valve timing events. The later an intake valve closes and earlier an exhaust valve opens(larger lobe center values),the higher the rpm will be at which the engine will produce maximum power-and the narrower the useful powerband. Conversely,smaller lobe center values indicate:earlier intake valve closing,more compression at mid-rpm,and a lower peak horsepower rpm,later exhaust valve opening,more time for the burning mixture to push on the piston,and lower peak horsepower rpm. Smaller lobe center numbers will lower the peak horsepower but will result in a wider rpm powerband. The XS Eleven Yamaha has a very broad power spread and lobe centers of around 100 degrees,while the peakier KZ1000 Kawa's lobe centers are 108 degrees(more or less''.) My Vance&Hines shop also said 104-106 is a good compromise,and I've seen it mentioned by other posters here. Some may have a different opinion but it works fine for my bike. KK.