start up after new piston rings

[turkish1961]

I thought had got all those blast beads out now i'm not sure

after nessim said ''maybe the dust go stuck around buckets'' i can see that as a strong possibilty because in run fine untill I got on the road the only good thing might mean i had set timming right ..lol


there is plenty of oil going to the head seems clear no crap in it ?


s**t why did i bother with the head coating

not sure what to do now

robinsons have no stock said 3/4 days,,where do they get there stock?

will try debben tommorrow

hampshirehog do you have your own breakers/shop or the like??


thanks vic

 

[hampshirehog]

hampshirehog do you have your own breakers/shop or the like??

I've got loads of old bits but I'm sure I haven't got any 1000 valves. If it ran right on start up you will have had the timing ok (they run like pants if you're a tooth out - you would notice). So you need to pull those valves and check for straightness. You might not need them.

If it is grit you have a problem. Have you got a pressure washer you can fire down all those oilways? I've just sorted an OIF Triumph for a guy that had been blasted and the washer worked. Soak it in water with added washing powder (Daz, Ariel etc) which breaks down the oil / surface tension etc first.

 

[turkish1961]

grit grit grit [chris at barneys bikes was right don't do head ]
now my eyes have been opened there's lots of it

o well at least i know the vavle timming was right
please make it clear how to clean out oil ways under cam journals and drilling out plug

 

[hampshirehog]

You could start growing spuds in there. You have to get all that crap out and it is a bugger.

2 methods, neither 100% so no guarantees.

1. Blast the hell down the cam journal oilways with a high pressure washer - use the soak in washing powder trick. You might get lucky but you're guessing (you can't see an can only tell from the lack of grit coming out in your washings.

or

2. If you look sideways on at you head you will see 2 plugs at the end of where the cams run. These are where Suzuki drilled the oil ways and then blocked them off afterwards (they didn't have drill that went round corners). If you remove these plugs you will be straight in to the oil ways. Get the washer in there.

You'll have to drill the plugs out and either weld the hole back or you may be able to tap a thread and run short bolt in there.

 

[Nessism]

I'd say either drill out the galley plugs and thread for pipe plugs, or soak the entire head in some solvent to degrease, followed by repeated flushing of the passages with high pressure water.

The cross drilled passages dump into the cam chain tunnel, so if you have push water in though the outer stud passages (you need to plug one end) then the water will come out the cam tunnel.

I did this exact thing when cleaning the head on my 1000. Got blasting grit into various places it shouldn't and then flushed it out with degreaser and water.

Here in the states they have a cleaner known as Simple Green. I flooded the passages with this stuff SEVERAL TIMES, followed by using bottle brushed down the passages in the cams (very small) and water, water, and more water. Took me at least two or three secessions before I was confident the passages were clean. It might be easier to just drill out those plugs.

BTW, I have loads of spare valves, but obviously, they won't get there by the end of the week. Let me know if I can help.

 

[turkish1961]

thanks hamlshiredog and nessismgood advice ,

is there a picture some where showing exact layout of oil ways ???

please confirm
i believe oil comes up 1 outer stud on both sides ,
then splits ..and all goes back down the cam chain tunnel
1 to feed the bottom of the bucket area and then [big passage ]
2 to feed where the cam journelsare under the caps [small passage ]

but on mine it looks like its just the big passage which is the easyer one to clean out ,or so i thought

my camshafts are still perfect no signs of grit

 

[sparki]

i believe robinsons get stock from the netherlands but could be wrong. pretty sure europes main suzuki distribution is done from there... 3-4 days isn't that bad new new parts on such an old bike tbh. debben is always good to try but may take a while to answer their phone ... or you could try the god of tuning in the uk, roger upperton http://www.uppertonracing.com/ , again, he may take a while to answer the phone but persist!.... best way to clean out that head imo is to get it ultrasonically cleaned and explain the issue with it.... the cleaner tank should be big enough to turn the head around, upside down, on it's end to get the media out.... horrible stuff

 

[Nessism]

thanks hamlshiredog and nessismgood advice ,

is there a picture some where showing exact layout of oil ways ???

please confirm
i believe oil comes up 1 outer stud on both sides ,
then splits ..and all goes back down the cam chain tunnel
1 to feed the bottom of the bucket area and then [big passage ]
2 to feed where the cam journelsare under the caps [small passage ]

but on mine it looks like its just the big passage which is the easyer one to clean out ,or so i thought

my camshafts are still perfect no signs of grit

I don't recall the exact oil flow path but if you look close at the ends of the head, there are actually 8 different plugs pressed inside to close off oil passages that were drilled. The larger passages are to send oil from one cam bearing to the next, but I'd need to study the head to understand what the smaller passages do.

At any rate, good luck with getting the grit all cleaned out. It CAN be done. Soaking in a degreaser is critical because the grit will not flush out if it's all gooped up and stuck to the inside of the passages. Degrease really well, followed by lots of flushing. Ultrasonic will do nothing to flush the grit out but it may help degrease so do what you feel is best.

 

[sparki]

without wishing to start a contest on whats right or wrong but i've seen tanks that are clean to start, media blasted heads go in, and a layer of silt on the bottom when they're taken out.... that combimed with a cleaning agent will completely degrease and get rid of a huge portion of what's stuck in there.... the reason i mentioned turning it etc will also assist for obvious reasons...

 

[Nessism]

Ultrasonic cleaning is a fine suggestion, however I believe it needs to be followed up by flushing of the passages because the grit isn't going to flow out by of those galley passages all by itself. Ultrasonic cleaning will have the added benefit of removing the grease without damaging the paint (I think).

 

[hampshirehog]

Ultrasonic won't hurt the powdercoating. But I'm a big fan of washing powder for degreasing in case like this (US translates to the powder stuff the missus washes the laundry with). It really does do what all those charming fellers with big smiles say in the adverts and there will be nothing for the grit to stick to.

However, althought it won't be stuck down it will just sit there and will need to be flushed out - hence the pressure washer.

 

[turkish1961]

hi gents

well i have done the sensible thing and no going to rush around fot friday rally
even though my local 'barneys bikes' told me where they get there parts 'fowlers' in bristol they even had stock and could del 2 valves for ?100 the next day

fairly confident i know the path of the oil as i said before
think i'm very lucky cams seem to be ok

think l will go for the DAZ option

also pointed out by friend has some of the grit gone down the cam chain tunnel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and think is does not go down to the filter more like into the big ends etc

on my ride i only did 4 miles and 1 of those i was pushing it

time to order the valves any way from my local shop

vic

 

[Nessism]

Like I mentioned above, I have spare valves. Shipping to England is $15 for a small Flat Rate box. You can have the valves for free. Let me know if I can help.

BTW, are you sure the valves are bad? Maybe they just stuck in the guides and will be fine with all the grit removed?

 

[turkish1961]

yes 2 are bent

when I push them in and spin them by hand. Looking at the valve in the combustion chamber you can see it move 1 to 2mm as it turns

thanks for your gr8 offer nessism i take it they are old valves? is that ok to fit them
or should i fit new ones ??

i'm still going to my rally on friday amazingly i put a request on face book and a friend is going to lend me his kaxazaki vn1500 or suzuki gsf600 [work hack ]should take the 600 but don't think i could cope with the ridding position.
so the cruiser it is even though its going to take some cleaning when i get back, rain forcasted

 

[hampshirehog]

Ed will have measured those valve stems I'm sure (check his sig line). If they are within spec limits they'll be fine. You should also measure the valve guide to valve stem clearance to see if that is within tolerance. If that's out it's new valve guides.

 

[Nessism]

I have a number of valves that measure just a smig under the "new" specification, and well above the service limit for valve stem diameter. Drop me a PM to discuss as necessary.

 

[tatu]

I've just seen this thread. Sorry for your trouble. It's deja-vu for me. I sand blasted the head on one'v my 1000's and I must'v spent four hours with a pressure washer and compressor cleaning it out plus more on other days waiting for it dry and blowing it again and again. I thought I'd got it because no more media came out.
Everything was fine.. for a while. The engine no longer is the pefect shhhh sound it used make after I first built it. Now it sounds like what it is, a 50k engine.
I'm gutted.
My answer is that I'm stripping my engine and I will change all it's guts, I will keep the crank cases to keep the correct numbers/paperwork.
Your engine will certainly need to be completely stripped and cleaned, the media will be throughout your engine.

 

[turkish1961]

hi of on my rally this morning

never ever wanted to pull apart bottom end!

still don't want to. will have to think about this over the weekend

will check cam chain tunnel in the barrel to see if there is any sign of grit

arggghhhhhh


vic

 

[Guy]

Your engine will certainly need to be completely stripped and cleaned, the media will be throughout your engine.

I have to agree, chances are some of that stuff made it down the cam tunnel after even a few miles riding......
Roller bearings on the crank might stand up to a small amount of grit, but oil pump and little ends won't.....

 

[turkish1961]

hi all
well i did get to ther rally on a vn1500 a friend lent me .

woulld rather have gone on the GS of course

found a friend who had a cleaning tank at work, he even put new fluid in (thanks kingsnirth power station)

i will still give another clean my self ,with washing powder etc

with reference to grit going down can tunnel i have checked and no signs yet
still need to take oil out and sump of

nessism is going to send some valves over canada

so things are looking up


its great to see such people comming together and helping each other out,
i hope i can repay others in the future