Stator Paper Caper: Shunted & Stumped!

[Speedo]

BassCliff - thx for patience and advice. I will be starting the mega wire cleaning deal tomorrow. Today I tried to address the power wire. I don't think my bike HAS a fusebox. If it does, where is it? (review pics u helped with below). It looks like just one main fuse to me.

Anyway, back to RR pos wire. I am planning on a deeper diagnostic later this afternoon, but as of this a.m. I cannot tell where the heck that RR pos goes and/or how the heck it is getting to battery! It almost looks like it is tied into a wire that goes up to front of bike (to switches? can't tell yet). Not sure if relevant, but I see no "sense" wire from RR, so must be a 5 wire then? Can POS as wired have anythign to do with not have a sense wire? My guess at moment is my old mechanic wired RR pos to swiched pos wire since there is no sense wire.

BTW, so how does the RR "sense" load then w/o a sense wire?

Bottom line right now is that I am too scared to rewire RR pos. Should I be? What bad things can happen if any?

 

[Speedo]

psyguy - thanks (we musta posted almost simultaneously:!.

I am still having a really hard time believing it could be the battery since it is almost brand new (like less than 2 months, maybe 60 riding miles on it), I use a self stop trickle charger, was very careful with the acid, etc, BUT to your and several others' point, I cannot load test it or test for shorts like an auto parts store can. So I will remove it, charge it to full, and take a little trip to the autoparts guys with the good testing stuff asap.

The other reason I have a hard time believing it's the battery is because during the last 10 of the 20 yrs ive owned Suzi, it has gone through at least 7 batteries and I have had to constantly recharge them all season. To the point that I have refused to go on any single day rides more that 30 or 40 miles anticipating (from experience) that the battery will go flat and the bike will no longer start and/or start behaving badly (running bad).

As far as stator volts ok, but maybe not enough amps, that theory makes a lot of sense and I will need to test. I will review your thread on how to do that. At least I can do that without having to remove any covers and the like. I will also clean all wiring connections since that is well within my abilities and see if that makes a difference....

 

[Speedo]

Important CORRECTION

Important CORRECTION

Important CORRECTION: RR is SIX (6) wire. Black wire is scotchlocked (connected) into ORANGE. Orange and looks like a white or greenish white wires both go into the little black cube relay looking thing in the pic below.
Wiring diagram (BassCliff's site, etc) says RR black should tap into Orange and orange goes into fuse box. But again, I see no fusebox.

Can it possibly be that the sense wire is wired incorrectly? How to test?

Can I safely rewire RR RedPOS+ directly to battery (well I guess I can certainly try it, I do have fused wire loop handy rated for 30A, so 15 should be fine I'm thinking, if not, I can put back way it is now)

 

[Speedo]

One More QQ

One More QQ

a couple of things that i learnt from the good gsr guys while tracing my charging problems are:

• the stator can test ok for voltage output but still be unable to produce enough current to meet the demand of the headlight current draw

One more QQ for now. So how can I test Stator for current/amps (since volt test is good)? I researched PSYGUY's whole thread and could not find it. Did I miss it? Posted somewhere else? Thank you everyone for all your time/help!

 

[Guest]

i don't know that that there is any test for the stator current output under load, but as i am positive i have a good battery and wiring and RR, and the stator looks suspicious, i ordered a new one.

taking the stator out IS really easy, put the bike on the centre stand, put the screwdriver through the centrestand to lock it (there is hole there to do so) and put a 2x4 piece of framing wood under the front wheel. the bike is safe and FAR from tipping over but the cover can be taken off without any oil spillage. i tried it myself just the other day.

the sense wire is correctly wired into the orange wire.

don't worry about the fusebox for now (it may likely be a single-fuse model that you have).
just take the RR + wire directly to the batt through an inline fuse. if this doesn't correct the problem you can go back to the way it is wired from the factory - so it goes to the main fuse. this is a good enough setup if all the connections are clean and the wires are good.

 

[Speedo]

thx for help psyguy.

pretty sure what i have IS a single main fuse model. so the more i think (it's getting harder and harder as i age:-&) about it, there should not be any problem adding another fused hot direct to battery....should pose 0 harm (and to ur point, I can always put it back). I just wish I could tell what the heck the RR hot is plugged into now. But if no matter, then no matter.

Took center stand off yrs ago (along w hacksawing off un-needed frame parts that were only there to bolt stock exhaust to which is never going back on...gives bike cleaner look...can't tell from pix here tho...i'll get around to taking more/posting eventually).

I do have sep stands for rear (dunno brand) and for front (kwiklift) so I'm sure I could rig some sort of lean thing up if it becomes necessary do the stator.

I will also take battery to autoparts store to end that argument/ hopefully eliminate that as a variable in my problem.

thx again.

 

[Guest]

I just wish I could tell what the heck the RR hot is plugged into now.

usually, the RR is wired into the fuse (box)

with a bit of patience you can trace the wire from the RR and see where it goes

 

[gremlin]

add a ground wire from your motor to the frame. then add a ground wire striate to your regulator. get some of the anitsease for spark plugs with the copper in it. use that on your ground connections. the parts store should have a small package of it for a buck or under. just use a very little bit on each connection.

dose your meter have a conutiny setting. it beeps when you touch your LEDs together. use that setting with our bike warmed up to check for fried stator. connect the black to a good ground. and with all three wires from the stator disconnected put the red lead to each wire. it will beep if there is a brake in the varnish coating on the stator. the oil will ground out the stator.

 

[lucabond]

It sounds like the output of your RR goes to the key switch and then the power gets fed out from there. You might want to take a look at the ignition switch. Try spraying some contact cleaner down inside and work the key back and forth see if that helps. You can take them apart and clean them and check the plug at the bottom and see how that looks.
Good luck

 

[Speedo]

Progress Update

Progress Update

Thanks to all for a whole bttload of great advice

Update as of today (which ain't over yet....back to bike until dark after this):

1. Battery - Psyguy/several others - confirmed to be "100% good" by local Honda dealer today.

2. Gremlin - yes I have cont test beep on my MM. No beeps testing stator leads to ground w/ bike running, so all looks to be ok on that test

3. Lucabond/psyguy/basscliff et.al: No fuse box. Single main 15A fuse. I have no idea where the RR +POS went to (and back), but went ahead and wired in a direct RR POS to battery, fired it up, and tested to see what worked/what didn't. Everything works w/o this connection, so I guess I'll be not using/taping up 3 wires not just 2 as per BassCliff's deal.

here are results:

Before RR POS+ direct to battery:
Lights OFF: 13.2v idle / 14.0 @ 5k rpm
Lights ON: 12.6 idle / 12.9 @ 5k rpm

After RR POS+ wired direct to battery:
Lights OFF: 13.7v idle / 14.9 - 15.0 at times @ 5k rpm. PROBLEM HERE?
Lights ON: 12.6 idle / 13.3 @ 5k rpm (small but real improvement)

4. Connections cleaning (basscliff) - there are so many connectors on this thing I just wanna cry. So far I have only cleaned up all connections around battery box and RR. Will be working my way toward front of bike.

5. Lastly - perhaps unrelated but maybe and certainly significant: Volts at Coil Test (from Wired George link off BassCliff's site):

1-4 coil: 9.7v (should be 12)
2-3 coil: 9.8v (sb 12)

So looks like, in addition to the connectors cleaning "project", the coil relay rewiring is in line as well. More reading/homework for me!:-k

 

[Sandy]

4. Connections cleaning (basscliff) - there are so many connectors on this thing I just wanna cry. So far I have only cleaned up all connections around battery box and RR. Will be working my way toward front of bike.

5. Lastly - perhaps unrelated but maybe and certainly significant: Volts at Coil Test (from Wired George link off BassCliff's site):

1-4 coil: 9.7v (should be 12)
2-3 coil: 9.8v (sb 12)

So looks like, in addition to the connectors cleaning "project", the coil relay rewiring is in line as well. More reading/homework for me!:-k

Things sound like they're working out for you now. When you get to the front and get inside the headlight bucket if you remove the 2 bolts holding it to the mounts you can move it out of the way and easily remove the ignition switch and clean the contacts on it. Not that there's anything wrong with doing the relay mod but that'll probably fix your problem with the voltage to the coils.

 

[Speedo]

ps Doug Chandler

ps Doug Chandler

Sandy, good advice. I will actually do that first before attempting coil relay mod esp since I forgot to buy the dang pigtail for the relay today.

PS ALSO Today: I met Doug Chandler (AMA hall of fame rider - go ahead and google it you youngsters out there) who has just opened up a cycle performance shop in Salinas, CA right next to the Honda dealer I took the battery to for test. SUPER nice guy AND he works on any bikes including our old ones (so now I have "punt" move if I simply can't figure something out or fix it). How cool is that?? Been a pretty good day (for a change)!

 

[Guest]

Lights ON: 12.6 idle / 13.3 @ 5k rpm

what's the reading at 2000rpm?
if it is 13.3V, while not perfect it should not lead to your battery going flat.
so, you also need to test the charging system while riding with the lights ON as if there is a charging problem that 13.3V that you get on a short test can deteriorate over time due to the lights taking power from the battery rather than the alternator.

watch my thread for the updates when i get the new stator as now your readings and situation very much resembles what i have... :-k

 

[Speedo]

psyguy - ooo, I see where you are going with this and I like it! Did test, at 2K, I'm at 13.2v. Very good. I might just be "done enough" with this ordeal. I will however diligently continue my contact cleaning.

Sandy/Lucabond - I took light bucket off and tried to clean ignition. Looks like all connections are permanent. Am I missing something? I did spray w/ contact cleaner as well as spray down into keyhole per Lucabond. If this works, here is what I am seeing [I am VERY frustrated with this site as far as posting/linking to pics BTW....argghhh]

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...authkey=Gv1sRgCM7tnemctYCymAE&feat=directlink

Reading at coils did not change: 9.7 and 9.8v. I think the whole coil thing should be a totally new post so I will be doing that to solicit opinions on coil mod yes or no.

 

[Speedo]

psyguy - forgot to add - a)how the heck to test while riding? My meter only has probe pointy thingys on it. what, do you strap the thing to your tank or what? any tips on this?

b) why important again?? no mention of this in Stator Papers at all so I'm just curious. I'm not sure I understand your previous expanation sorry:-k

 

[Sandy]

psyguy - ooo, I see where you are going with this and I like it! Did test, at 2K, I'm at 13.2v. Very good. I might just be "done enough" with this ordeal. I will however diligently continue my contact cleaning.

Sandy/Lucabond - I took light bucket off and tried to clean ignition. Looks like all connections are permanent. Am I missing something? I did spray w/ contact cleaner as well as spray down into keyhole per Lucabond. If this works, here is what I am seeing [I am VERY frustrated with this site as far as posting/linking to pics BTW....argghhh]

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...authkey=Gv1sRgCM7tnemctYCymAE&feat=directlink

Reading at coils did not change: 9.7 and 9.8v. I think the whole coil thing should be a totally new post so I will be doing that to solicit opinions on coil mod yes or no.

There should be a small screw holding the white switch part into the housing. Drop the switch out and just flood it with cleaner and rotaste the switch, be careful to check the orientation of the switch when you remove so you don't get it back in 180 degrees out. Some people disassemble the switch to clean the contacts but I alreay have enough springs and clips lost in my garage, I don't need more.

 

[Guest]

you can buy aligator clips or eye-connectors for your voltmeter, then put the voltmeter in a tank bag or just tape it to the tank or handlebars.

or, a bit easier way to do it, go for an hour ride with the headlights ON and then test the charging at 2000rpm - don't stop the engine as if the battery is drained you may not be able to restart the engine

 

[lucabond]

Just had a thought. Since you seem to be having a voltage drop at the coils if you were to do the coil mod that would take some load off the old harness which could lead to less of a voltage drop thru it. You may also want to connect your headlight to the battery via a relay too which would give you a brighter headlight and take more load off the old harness. Thats the way I run my bike. Good luck

 

[Guest]

just to clarify, those mods may be good for getting better voltage at the coils and the headlight but as far as the charging problems go they won't help any

 

[Speedo]

Shirazdrum has been here last 2 nights thankfully, he's a bit of an electrical genius, and thankfully also, even though we were supposed to be wrenching on HIS bike, he was happy to spend 80% of our wrenching time on MY bike -all while subjecting him to country music while wrenching.
What a great guy and great cause!

Anyway, turns out at least one definite problem all along has been the RR going bad and not working but INTERMITTANTLY (think light bulb going bad and flickering until dead). Extreme voltage spikes was causing the mysterious bike running good one day, bad the next, "healing itself" and running good again for no apparent reason, along with coils not getting proper voltage, along with plugs getting fouled in the process even though they had less than 200mi on them.

... last post...including BassCliff told me read the Stator Papers and test my charging system. Prev thread below where bike drained battery and ran like crap and apparently "healed" itself.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...ight=runs+crap

However, noone really has answered the question: can a drained battery alone cause the bike to run terrible (w/ Dyna S, etc)??

ANSWER: NOPE. BUT TOASTED RR SURE CAN! MORE...

... all over 60, but it the readings were not "rock solid" and fluctuated occasionally - don't know if that matters; if so, how else to test?)

ANSWER: OH YEAH IT MATTERS:!: Fluctuation is a BAD sign...readings should be virtually rock solid. If your readings are jumping around, suspect the RR. Shiraz showed my on his GS850 how the reading should look a bike with everything working properly which was "worth a 1000 words".

What finally solved it (thank you Shirazdrum - you ARE "the man"), was
1. Disconnect RR which take both RR and Stator out of spark loop.
2. Fully charge battery (make sure it's good)
3. Do coil mod to make sure coils getting full 12v and spark is good
4. Fresh plug (just to make SURE plugs are not contributing to problem).