Still overcharging!!

[crc1214]

Man this has me puzzled....

I should say this first.. I found out my bike was overcharging - checked the components and everything checked out good - so I replaced the battery (I read that an internal short in the battery will actually cause overcharging).

Replaced the battery, hooked up the red output of R/R directly to + terminal of battery, and black ouput of R/R directly to - terminal (and of course 3 stator connections) - still overcharging.

So I thought maybe the R/R, while testing just fine using "bench testing" methods, was failing under load.

Went out and got a used Shindengen SH-232 R/R from a local shop.

Wired 3 stator wires in, red output to + term. of battery, green to - term. of battery, and DID NOT hook up the brown wire.

I've read many posts where guys have not hooked up this brown wire. So I didn't. Started her up this morning and the same damned thing.... overcharging. Even reaching 20V at high RPM's!!

So I decided to temporarily hook the brown wire to the + term of battery (I said temporary!).
V goes down, and stays at 15.5.

So what can possibly be up? 15.5, while better - is still too much right? I'm thinking it should top off at 14.5-14.8 MAX!

So what's the chances I could have 2 R/R units that test good using bench testing methods, but fail under load?

I think something else is up here. Anyone experienced this before?

I'm truly puzzled.

Only thing I can think of is the stator is putting out TOO much power - is there an upper end on the AC voltage spec coming from the 3 phases of the stator? But still..... even if that happened the R/R would dissipate this as heat!! This is weird, and it's 75 and sunny out!!! I should be riding!!! HELP!

 

[Jethro]

Only thing I can think of is the stator is putting out TOO much power - is there an upper end on the AC voltage spec coming from the 3 phases of the stator? But still..... even if that happened the R/R would dissipate this as heat!! This is weird, and it's 75 and sunny out!!! I should be riding!!! HELP!

Stator should push out around 80 volts AC on all three legs. Test all three phases of the stator and see what you are getting for voltage.

 

[bwringer]

You need to hook up the brown wire to a SWITCHED positive, not directly to the battery. It needs a loaded circuit that is only live when the key is on. Many people use a tail light or running light circuit. This does make a difference, and I'm not sure but it may explain the slightly high output.

Secondly, consider the possibility that your meter is inaccurate. Borrow another meter and compare readings. There's a reason some meters are $5 and some are $50.

Lastly, make sure you're getting 70-80 volts AC (switch the meter to VAC) between all three legs of the stator. (Unplug all three stator wires completely, and test AC voltage between all wire combinations: AB, AC, and BC at 5K RPM).

As always, corroded or bad connections will quickly destroy parts and create confusion. Once you've verified the stator and wiring are OK, solder the stator connectors. Bullet connectors simply do not work.

 

[crc1214]

Thanks, will do stator testing tonight.

As far as soldering... we've shedded some light on the subject in another post - "soldering aluminum to copper".

I think I may start a seperate post with the info.

I thought soldering was the primo way of connecting wires, but this morning I was converted!!

Chad

 

[rustybronco]

You need to hook up the brown wire to a SWITCHED positive, not directly to the battery. It needs a loaded circuit that is only live when the key is on. Many people use a tail light or running light circuit. This does make a difference, and I'm not sure but it may explain the slightly high output.

brown is a voltage sense wire...
if you don't hook it up it ain't gonna regulate.

 

[crc1214]

Just to clarify - I connected the brown to positive terminal of battery just for a quick test, not permanently.

I will attach it to the tailight power supply wire tonight.

This is wierd that some people on this forum claim they are charging just fine without the brown wire attached. I'd have a blown battery!!

 

[rustybronco]

My escapade.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=83313

 

[crc1214]

Thanks for that link Rustybronco.

Now I've got another situation on my hands.....

I was going to tie the brown wire in to the fuel level guage + feed wire, since it's so close to everything. With the ignition switch to "ON", I'm only getting 8.1 V off that wire, with about 50 ohms of resistance between it and the + terminal of my battery.

No resistance between the + terminal and the repspective wires going to and from the fusebox, so that's cool. Now I just have to track it down from there. Working on that right now. Maybe this is what caused my original R/R to overcharge the battery in the first place... drama, drama, drama........I can't take it any more!

I'll probably just tie in the brown wire to the orange/white wire coming out of the fusebox, as the V between it and the - terminal of the battery is the same as the V between the - terminal and the + terminal of the battery.

 

[kalessin]

A lot of people have been tying to the rear-brake light 12vdc+ supply wire (check your wiring diagram to find the right wire color). You might get better voltage there.

 

[focus frenzy]

back to the original problem question.
the stator pages are flawed, the regulator test only test the rectifiers, it does not test the diode that actualy regulates the voltage.

have you tested your meter?? it could be reading wrong!!!

 

[crc1214]

It's reading correctly. I've got an old-skool analog meter that I compared it with, dead on. The battery in it is almost brand new.

Regarding the Electrex chart...... I always test my R/R units using the old-school methods outlined in the manuals (written in the era of analog meters) with an ANALOG meter - that's VERY important.

I strongly caution (and Electrex actually cautions as well) against using a digital meter if using methods outlined in factory or even Clymer manuals. Those methods were written in the era of analog meters, and using a digital meter sometimes gives false readings.

Check this out.

http://republika.pl/reg_mot/index_pliki/Diode_test.pdf#search='electrex%20diode%20testing'

 

[Boondocks]

It's reading correctly. I've got an old-skool analog meter that I compared it with, dead on. The battery in it is almost brand new.

Regarding the Electrex chart...... I always test my R/R units using the old-school methods outlined in the manuals (written in the era of analog meters) with an ANALOG meter - that's VERY important.

I strongly caution (and Electrex actually cautions as well) against using a digital meter if using methods outlined in factory or even Clymer manuals. Those methods were written in the era of analog meters, and using a digital meter sometimes gives false readings.

Check this out.

http://republika.pl/reg_mot/index_pliki/Diode_test.pdf#search='electrex%20diode%20testing'

My reading of the Elextrex advice is that the information in the old manuals was written for analog meters and is now outmoded. Elextrex does not recommend using analog meters and the old test procedure, but using a digital meter using the diode check scale to confirm the diode function.

I prefer to use a digital meter.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Another post you can check
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=65159&highlight=Regulator+Modification

 

[crc1214]

My reading of the Elextrex advice is that the information in the old manuals was written for analog meters and is now outmoded. Elextrex does not recommend using analog meters and the old test procedure, but using a digital meter using the diode check scale to confirm the diode function.

I prefer to use a digital meter.

Yeah, I worded that kind of wierd.....

I prefer to "double check" against the digital meter when I can. For that, I use the old procedures with an analog meter.

I don't think it matters what procedure you use, but the meter you use does matter. For procedures in factory and Clymer/Haynes manuals, use an analog meter. For the electrex chart, use a digital meter.

 

[ruddy]

I had the same problem. I solved it by getting an Electrix regulator from Dennis Kirk. It gives me up to a max of 14.5 volts. Works for me.

 

[crc1214]

Well now I'm trying to figure out why I'm only getting 8V at the fuel gauge wires... and my multi-meter isn't bad, I can assure you......

Here's what's up. With the battery connected to the bike, and ignition switch on, here's the V readings I get.....
.
- wire of fuel guage to + wire for fuel guage...... 8V

- term of battery to + wire for fuel guage.......8V
+ term of battery to + wire for fuel guage...... 4V

- term of battery to ground wire for fuel guage..... 0.1V
+ term of battery to ground wire for fuel guage...... 11.9V

Reading across battery terminals..... 12.44V

This is with the headlight on, and after some other testing. It's a brand new battery.

So I notice my fuel guage is technically seeing 12.0V (I can live with a .44V drop considering all the connectors in the path from the battery to these wires). But it's seeing it in wierd ways, some from the positive wire and some from the negative wire!

And it's not just the fuel guage..... rear tail light is like this too.......

What's weird is that I see a trend. The further away a connection is from the battery, I see less V from the - term of battery to + wire, and more V from the + wire of battery to + V wire. .... but in any instance it all totals up to 12 V!!
I started with the fusebox. Battery leads unplugged, I take a resistance reading from the red lead that plugs in the + terminal to the red outlet wire on the fusebox...... dead on "0". Same for the black lead that plugs in the - terminal to the black/white wire going in the fusebox. Dead on "0".

I plug the leads into the battery, turn the ignition on........

I get battery voltage minus 0.2. Where's the 0.2V at? I take a reading from - battery terminal to ground wire going to the fusebox..... there it is 0.2V!!

Here's the weird part....... when plugged in, the fuel guage and tailight, plus all other stuff function just fine. The tailight is nice and bright, the brake light is nice and bright, the headlight is bright, the signals function at proper speed and are bright........ this has me puzzled!

 

[rustybronco]

By fuel gauge are you talking THE gauge on the cluster or the fuel sending unit in the tank? your gauge has a resistance value, your sender has a resistance value and the wires have a resistance value, you have measured the voltage drop across two of them (wires and gauge) not the third.
when you add up all of your voltages they should add close to your battery voltage negating the resistance of the battery and connections.

see same for tail light circuit also.

does this help? 1. yes 2. no
Tee hee hee

 

[crc1214]

The wires I'm taking readings at are the ones that the fuel level sending unit plug into (female ends). I've got the unit unplugged, and I have the ingnition switch on.

Approx. 8V between the black/white wire and the yellow/green wire.

And the other measurements are above.

Rustybronco, it seems like we may get this figured out real soon. I await your reply!

 

[rustybronco]

Ok, you have measured the voltage that is normally seen by the sending unit,
your volt meter has completed the circuit and has allowed current to flow from the battery through the gauge and wires (without the sending unit) and back to the battery. if you connect the sender up and unplug the gauge and put your volt meter across the two wires to the gauge you will see where the other 4+ volts are. each item in a circuit has a resistance (wire, gauge, sender, connection(s) and battery) and a corresponding voltage drop.

did this help? 1. yes 2. no

more tee hee hee...

 

[argonsagas]

Ignore the readings at the fuel gauge. Part of the answer is given already, but part is that there are multiple connections and splices inside the harness and you cannot see what connects where. Several of what you would think are individual circuits have two or more splices attached, and varying wire sizes as well.

Back to the problem

15.5 volts into the battery is too high.

Add enough extra wire to your brown one to allow you to connect it into the tail light circuit on the right side of the frame.

If this does not do the job for you, replace the R/R.