Strange clutch disappearance

[rkj2002]

Help!

Hi Guys, I just started riding a bike I've been working on for the last few
years, it's a 1985 GS 700e Suzuki. It's got 25k and is a really nice machine. This is my third day
out and before I tell you what happened today let me say the first two days I
spent testing this bike in all ways on all different kinds of roads and
conditions, nothing turned up. Bike ran flawless.

Today (3rd day), after a 20 mile slow back road jaunt I turned on to the
highway, I turned up the heat (6-7 grand) getting on and I went for third and the clutch
lever went limp (cable style actuation), so, I figure broken cable, I turned
around when I caught a break in the traffic and started for home. On the way back the clutch lever comes
back, at first a little and then as I rode on, carefully, more and more until it
was fine, normal. I rode easy all the way home with no trouble.

A few hours later I tried it out again and the same thing happened, it seems
that this is speed related, engine speed. When it first happened I was getting
out in to traffic with the power on (5-6 grand or so), right after that the
clutch lever went south...

I put a new worm gear (a small mechanism that is between the cable and the push
rod for the clutch) in when I changed the sprockets but only because I lost a
few of the ball bearings and could not get others. There was nothing wrong, I just
wanted to clean and lube it.

I've never come across this problem in all my 55 years of riding and I'm
reaching out to anybody who has had this happen or has even a reasonable guess! This is just too weird for
words!!!

I took the bike out tonight and all was well on the back roads, even with a few
short blasts at higher revs, nothing at the clutch lever but normal feel.

Today I tested it again and as soon as you reach 6-7 grand on the tach the clutch lever goes bye by, if you nurse it a few miles it comes back. I'm going to pull off the left side cover and see if anything has come adrift around the worm gear but I have a feeling the problem might be on the right side.

Again, the clutch itself doesn't
slip or have any problems, you can ride all day if you keep the revs down....
I'm stumped for sure.

Thanks, Rick

 

[blowerbike]

check the entire pushing assembly.
worn mechanism/push rod/throw out bearing/pressure plate.
you will find the problem.
with this type of clutch you can check everything before you install the clutch cover!

 

[rkj2002]

check the entire pushing assembly.
worn mechanism/push rod/throw out bearing/pressure plate.
you will find the problem.
with this type of clutch you can check everything before you install the clutch cover!

Yes, you're talking about the right side of the motor. Do you need any special tools to get at the clutch?

Thanks, Rick

 

[blowerbike]

not for what you will be doing.
8-10mm socket/ screw driver ect...

 

[rkj2002]

not for what you will be doing.
8-10mm socket/ screw driver ect...

Thank you, I'll order up a gasket and get to work. Is there a bike that has the same clutch as mine, all I can get is the supplement for the GS700e. Be fun to know what I'm going to be looking at.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

i used to get those symptoms from drag racing
its like the plates stick together then release slowly.

 

[trippivot]

I put a new worm gear (a small mechanism that is between the cable and the push
rod for the clutch) in when I changed the sprockets

I've never come across this problem in all my 55 years of riding

you must be sorely mistaken.... kawasaki has the spiral worm gear close to the sprocket pal,

suzuki has a pivot arm/shaft and straight gear - not by the sprocket.

your description does not make logical sense. re-check the basics

 

[rkj2002]

you must be sorely mistaken.... kawasaki has the spiral worm gear close to the sprocket pal,

suzuki has a pivot arm/shaft and straight gear - not by the sprocket.

your description does not make logical sense. re-check the basics

Well, on the inside of the inner left cover that houses the sprocket there is a worm drive to connect the clutch cable to the push rod that goes through to the clutch pressure plate. it is there I assure you.

 

[blowerbike]

you must be sorely mistaken.... kawasaki has the spiral worm gear close to the sprocket pal,

suzuki has a pivot arm/shaft and straight gear - not by the sprocket.

your description does not make logical sense. re-check the basics

TRIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPERRRRRRR!!!
think again...700/750 83-86 had the worm gear like a kawi.

 

[rkj2002]

i used to get those symptoms from drag racing
its like the plates stick together then release slowly.

This is a little more than that though, the lever goes all the way in to the bar with no resistance, just the return spring tension. I think Blowerbike is right, I've got something ready to let go on the right side, if there's a throwout bearing shes toast. I see in the bikebanit break-downs there is 19 and 20; a bearing assy. and a collar looking device that is in the right place.....

 

[tatu]

Have you had the clutch basket off?
Might it be something daft like the cutch center nut untabbed and winding itself up and down the shaft?

 

[blowerbike]

Have you had the clutch basket off?
Might it be something daft like the cutch center nut untabbed and winding itself up and down the shaft?

this will be seen when he removes the pressure plate but yes valid point .

 

[tejasmud]

Is there a bike that has the same clutch as mine, all I can get is the supplement for the GS700e. Be fun to know what I'm going to be looking at.

The 83' GS750 service manual off Bascliff's site, it is the same engine basically.

The service manual has the same info as the supplement, then some extra info, not much, on the clutch in the engine section. Measuring plates/springs, ect..

I have never had this problem on the 700E. Interesting that it comes back and works after going out, and the clutch does not slip when it happens. The worm gear and pushrod would be forced back by the clutch springs. There is a small spring on the worm gear assembly, but even if it has popped off the clutch springs should push the pushrod back. If it didn't the clutch would slip. Could be #19 since it is the connection beyond the pushrods. If that were broken some how the pushrods would push #19 and it would push through without pushing the pressure disc #10.

Here is a pic of the clutch pack under the cover on the right side. In the center is #19. Once you pull off #10 there is #20. Sometimes it sticks to #10 as you pull it off from engine oil. #21 is there too, but it's just a thin washer for the bearings to ride on.

Oh, if you decide to replace the clutch springs don't buy EBC. Either OEM or Barnett. Barnett springs are around 70 lbs working load at the working height, a little less than double the load of the OEMs which are about 45 lbs. Stiffer lever but not much. EBC springs have a working load a tad less than OEM. Like 40 lbs. Rate is higher on the EBC springs, but the load, which is what matters is less.

Cable? There should be a tab where the clutch cable attaches to the worm gear mechanisim lever behind the left sprocket cover. If that tab was not bent to secure the cable end possibly it is not catching the cable right. The cable is in the adjuster at the lever perch correctly, right?

Weird. Fill us in when you pull the right side cover. Pics would be great if you have something broken.



E

 

[rkj2002]

The 83' GS750 service manual off Bascliff's site, it is the same engine basically.

The service manual has the same info as the supplement, then some extra info, not much, on the clutch in the engine section. Measuring plates/springs, ect..

I have never had this problem on the 700E. Interesting that it comes back and works after going out, and the clutch does not slip when it happens. The worm gear and pushrod would be forced back by the clutch springs. There is a small spring on the worm gear assembly, but even if it has popped off the clutch springs should push the pushrod back. If it didn't the clutch would slip. Could be #19 since it is the connection beyond the pushrods. If that were broken some how the pushrods would push #19 and it would push through without pushing the pressure disc #10.

Here is a pic of the clutch pack under the cover on the right side. In the center is #19. Once you pull off #10 there is #20. Sometimes it sticks to #10 as you pull it off from engine oil. #21 is there too, but it's just a thin washer for the bearings to ride on.

Oh, if you decide to replace the clutch springs don't buy EBC. Either OEM or Barnett. Barnett springs are around 70 lbs working load at the working height, a little less than double the load of the OEMs which are about 45 lbs. Stiffer lever but not much. EBC springs have a working load a tad less than OEM. Like 40 lbs. Rate is higher on the EBC springs, but the load, which is what matters is less.

Cable? There should be a tab where the clutch cable attaches to the worm gear mechanisim lever behind the left sprocket cover. If that tab was not bent to secure the cable end possibly it is not catching the cable right. The cable is in the adjuster at the lever perch correctly, right?

Weird. Fill us in when you pull the right side cover. Pics would be great if you have something broken.



E

Brilliant tejasmud, this is exactly what I was thinking (other than this is impossible!). It's not a complicated mechanism, I should think I'll find something obvious in there. Thank you for the pictures and the time, it means a lot right now.

I'll keep you posted, hopefully it's something simple but I have to admit, this ones got me good...

Cheers, Rick

 

[salty_monk]

I have a few spare parts fir that clutch if you do find something or need an odd plate or something.

If you haven't been in there you may find that the plates are getting stuck together. Take them out, clean scuff, clean again. Soak in clean oil and refit. Check tolerances first.

 

[rkj2002]

I have a few spare parts fir that clutch if you do find something or need an odd plate or something.

If you haven't been in there you may find that the plates are getting stuck together. Take them out, clean scuff, clean again. Soak in clean oil and refit. Check tolerances first.

Thanks Salty, I'll keep in touch

 

[rkj2002]

Thanks Salty, I'll keep in touch

Today I had a full day with the new bike, I just kept it under six grand and the clutch behaved. What a nice day, really like this bike especially with the new exhaust

I know I have to pull the clutch apart but after two years apart I'm getting a little seat time in, even if it's under sixgrand....

Thanks for everybody's help, even the exhaust is a product of this place; a few people told me what would fit my bike, and it worked like a charm I got a Yoshimura header and a period Kerker muffler. Sounds so much better than my poor old gutted originals and it runs a lot stronger plus I can keep it quiet going through town. Later, when I can afford it jets will probably be a good thing (seems a touch on the lean side). Any suggestions?, I'd like to keep the air box, right?

Take care, Rick :dancing:

 

[rkj2002]

Today I had a full day with the new bike, I just kept it under six grand and the clutch behaved. What a nice day, really like this bike especially with the new exhaust

I know I have to pull the clutch apart but after two years apart I'm getting a little seat time in, even if it's under sixgrand....

Thanks for everybody's help, even the exhaust is a product of this place; a few people told me what would fit my bike, and it worked like a charm I got a Yoshimura header and a period Kerker muffler. Sounds so much better than my poor old gutted originals and it runs a lot stronger plus I can keep it quiet going through town. Later, when I can afford it jets will probably be a good thing (seems a touch on the lean side). Any suggestions?, I'd like to keep the air box, right?

Take care, Rick :dancing:

Okay, today I took the cover off for the clutch adjuster and I'm ashamed to say but the new worm gear did not come with a lock nut, I don't know why I did not see it but I'm guilty as can be (I screwed up

I took the old one off the old worm gear and and set the clutch up on the new worm gear and set off. Problem solved. 1/4 to 1/2 turn after contact should work, yes?

Sorry for the false alarm Rick