Thoughts - 1983 GS550E Stalls When Stopping

[MacGyver]

Thanks in advance to all who keep this forum running and contribute. A world of information is at our fingertips these days and I am grateful for it.

Quick question - What would/should a shop charge or how much time would it take to tune up the carburetors on a 1983 GS550E?

The girlfriend just started riding and we are looking at a bike for her. We have our eye on a 1983 GS550E that is in good condition except for one thing, the bike consistently stalls when stopping (unless it is a very slow gentle stop). In my test drive at every stop sign or light I had to restart the engine. Thankfully there were no issues with the restart. When I asked the owner if this happened to him, he said no as he was always blipping the throttle (if he stopped at all I assume, he is a young man).

I searched around the forum here and it seems that this issue is common enough, there are a handful of threads, but no conclusive single solution except for checking the carbs out thoroughly. In order of likely culprits, floats seem to be the first thing to check, airjet and idle adjustments, leaks around the intake, ensure that the carbs are synced, and finally petcock issues. I have my doubts about the petcock due to the immediacy and consistency of the stalls. If all that yeilds nothing, rebuild the carbs, but I hope to avoid the latter.

The owner is going to try and fix the issue himself, but as he is anxious to get on his new Yamaha 1000 rocket (his dad will not let him register/ride it until the GS is sold), I am thinking he may be motivated to move the bike for less money and time and potentially save money ourselves.

So what kind of investment may be required either at a shop or in my own time? I am mecanically inclined, understand the carburetor in theory, but have never taken one apart. If I can shave $400-500 of the selling price ($1700) should we be able to fix the issue for less than that?

Thanks in advance for any information.
Tim
-----
Inspired by Long Way Round - Powered by a 2002 KLR650 - Driven by ME
2007 V-Strom 650 new to the stable!

 

[tkent02]

$1700 is way too high for a 550, unless it was owned by the Pope or Elvis or something.
You can get a pretty darned nice 1000 for that, or an absolutely perfect 750 or 850.

A nice tight 550 should be a lot less.

But to answer your question, shops mostly won't work on old bikes, if they do they will screw them up on purpose to sell a new bike.
$400 sounds about right for carbs.

 

[MacGyver]

$1700 is way too high for a 550, unless it was owned by the Pope or Elvis or something.
You can get a pretty darned nice 1000 for that, or an absolutely perfect 750 or 850.

A nice tight 550 should be a lot less.

But to answer your question, shops mostly won't work on old bikes, if they do they will screw them up on purpose to sell a new bike.
$400 sounds about right for carbs.

Sorry, I should have qualified that as $1700 Canadian or about $1500 US. But yes, point taken, I wasn't going to offer any more than $1500 CA even in perfect condition. I wouldn't want to put the girlfriend on anything larger than a 750 for now. Thanks for the feedback, it seems that an offer of $1200 as is would be more than reasonable.

 

[twiggy2cents]

http://www.kbb.com/motorcycle/retail/1983/suzuki/gs550e/78661

This is for my zip in the US, this is just a guide but it says about a grand USD in top notch shape. Im sure the guy will feel like this is a low ball but print it off and show him along with a canadian price and your findings in what you think it will need. Do the tires have weather cracks in it or are they glossy? thats one big thing to look for

 

[mostholycerebus]

My cousin got my 1985 GS550L with 11k miles in perfect condition for $1,000US, and I still think he over paid.

Of course, 9 months of sitting later resulted in $400 to get the carbs rebuilt AND rear pads replaced.

He kept having the SAME exact issue you are having, dying at stop, even after the carb rebuild, so he gave the bike to me. A few hours of labor, a hundred in intake boots and rings, and it is now running decent. IMO get 'em replaced so you KNOW there are no intake leaks, then move on. My leak was actually where the airbox meets the intake boots. The guy my cousin had rebuild the carbs overtightened the clamps, causing the box to 'buckle' and let air in.

 

[twiggy2cents]

common sign of too lean is a "lean bog" when you floor it and it falls on its face for a second then comes out of it.. 90% guarantee that would be the orings bad on the intakes.

Just something else to look for

 

[Big T]

I'd pass if he wants that much $$$

That thing can't be worth more than $1,000CDN if everything else is OK.

You'll be pouring $$ into it if you buy it as is.

Tires good?

 

[MacGyver]

Stalls Whe Letting Off of the Throttle

Stalls Whe Letting Off of the Throttle

Hello again. We offered 1250 CAD on the bike at the owner accepted. The ride home revealed that the stalling issue may be more wide spread than we thought. The first sign was that the 'new' battery was dead after the bike sat for a little over a week, the previous owner had it on a charger before we picked it up. The second sign was on the drive home, the engine stalled when I let off of the throttle with the clutch in while letting the bike slow down from 110 to 80.

Now another issue has shown itself. The girlfriend and I went out for a drive the other afternoon and after she rode the 550 for about 30 minutes keeping the throttle a little up at each stop to prevent the stalling. The engine did eventually stop once and when she went to start it, the battery was dead.

I was able to jump start the bike, but it was a lot harder than it should have been, I heard the engine turn over but it didn't want to start until about the fifth attempt. I know a lot of bikes do not generate enough power to charge the battery and keep the headlight on until they are up to running speed of 3-4000 rpm. My first thought is that I would put in a low beam cut out switch to use while she is learning and riding slow around the neighbourhood.

After installing the switch in the garage, I experimented and discovered that if I disconnected the battery while the bike was idling, it would die, headlight on or off. It took at least 3000 rpm to keep the bike running even with the headlight off.

Is this normal?

I suspect that there is a problem with the stator or rectifier, but want to be sure before focusing my attention on it. This could explain the stalling from an electrical perspective, simply no or very little electricity for a spark.

Again, thoughts please?
Thanks!

 

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. MacGyver,

It's my pleasure to give you the unofficial "mega-welcome". Pay particular attention to the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. There are plenty of tutorials on the GSR site, on my site, and I have links to others on Mr. bwringer's site and Mr. Matchless' site. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[p_s]

I know a lot of bikes do not generate enough power to charge the battery and keep the headlight on until they are up to running speed of 3-4000 rpm. My first thought is that I would put in a low beam cut out switch to use while she is learning and riding slow around the neighbourhood.

3-4000 rpm is just what people with old ignition switches and crusty connectors say. My '85 550ES charges from just off idle to redline. Go through the stator papers:

http://thegsresources.com/garage/gs_stator_ref.htm

I wouldn't disconnect the battery entirely to do any testing. Even if it's nearly dead, it'll smooth out the load on the regulator.

The headlight is a safety feature--I would advise a battery tender until you sort this out. Or if you plan on parking the bike over winter. Is the stalling a cutting in and out or a more gradual thing? If it's cutting in and out, that would add up if it's all an electrical problem. I've had similar problems on mine. After a lot of fussing around I put in a new ignition switch in my bike and it's been fine ever since. Of course it wasted a good battery first.

 

[mostholycerebus]

Wow, its amazing how similar these problems are to my bike. Mine had two issues: intake leak, and needed a regulator/recifier. Take the battery to a bike shop, many have a tester to tell if its good or not. Then get a honda R/R and wire the 'sense' wire into the coil relay mod. Then replace any bullet connectors you can get to with spade connectors. Keep in mind Duneages R/Rs have different connections than we need, and the mount holes are farther apart, so you have to do some work on a solution. I did those two mods and it now fires up just by touching the button lightly and my battery isn't dying anymore either.

As far as the engine dying, i'm still having the same issue (rarely) and still think its an intake leak. I think i'm setting the idle screw to compensate for the leak, which works, but during hard riding the bumping will cause the leak to temporarily seal and drop the idle to where it really should be, killing the engine.

 

[MacGyver]

Thanks for the welcome and input guys. It sounds like we are experiencing 'normal' operation for an aged GS. We will just have to deal with it for now as we would prefer to spend time having the girlfriend practise on the road instead of wrenching. I'll keep the headlight cutout in place and see if I can find an LED to connect to the 'city light' connector to address the safety issue. The stalling/dead battery issue is also a safety concern but there is only so much we can do and in the end there is a V-Strom or KLR waiting for the girlfriend when she gets her confidence up.

Fortunately since the bike does work, it would appear it is simply in need of an overhaul and when I get the time I'll rebuild the carbs, fix the intakes, check the valves, and check/clean the electrical components. Nothing major.

 

[p_s]

You can just pull the headlight fuse. (Good thing to know if you lose a stator on the road.) I still suggest buying a new battery & a battery tender. You can easily ride a couple hours on a charged battery with no charging system. It's not good for the battery, but I would guess 30 minutes would not be an issue at all. But your battery is probably a paperweight--a sealed AGM is $60 well spent.

 

[MacGyver]

Hi All,

I wanted to post an update and thanks for those who have provided guidance and information, p_s and BassCliff get honourable mentions. :clap:

A friend gave me a hand this past weekend and we took the carburetors out and gave them a quick once over. All the jets we could easily access looked to be clean and in good shape. There was some sediment in the float bowl so a rebuild is still recommended. I checked the intake o-rings and they look like new. The float heights were at spec. We synced up the carbs. None of this made any difference in the end.

Compression was off on cylinder #2, it read a lazy 90 psi at best, the others were all 120 psi and consistent. A valve check and adjustment will be next. If that doesn't help, I don't know if I want to get into a ring job.

The charging issue still remains, but with the help of the wonderful stator pages, it appears the stator coils or wiring are grounded out somewhere and that is causing the issue. The previous owner apparently replaced both the stator and regulator/rectifier and likely screwed something up with the stator install. The RR tests out OK so far.

On a side note, the turn signals were not behaving very well, slow to turn on initially and as the engine speed increased, they flashed quicker until they stayed on dimly at about 6k rpm. This was solved with the installation of a standard Tridon EP34 signal relay. (Actually it was an EP35 that required the two wires on the 'L' plug to be swapped around, the EP34 would have been plug and play provided nothing had been changed prior to my work.)
​

The saga continues. I'll post an update when I fix the stator/charging issue and have a chance to look at the valves.

Thanks again!

 

[twiggy2cents]

my relay did that too so i went to autozone and bought the cheapy electric flasher and it worked great

 

[MacGyver]

Woohoo! I located the stator/charging problem. When the previous owner replaced the stator he did a pretty good job, except he left too little slack in the wire, it was a challenge to pull off the case, and he pinched one of the wires in the engine casing grounding the stator nicely. I noticed the pinched wire when I started taking the screws out of the casing, I could see a bit of yellow wire insulation in between the casings. Some cleaning and high quality electrical tape and we are back in business. The system is charging now and the lights are bright.

Now on to those valves...

 

[tkent02]

Congrats on the fix, however I would suggest insulating with shrink tubing rather than tape, as the tape WILL come off leaving you back where you started. Maybe even two layers of shrink if it looks like it is in a place that is rubbing and would eventually wear through the insulation.

 

[MacGyver]

Congrats on the fix, however I would suggest insulating with shrink tubing rather than tape, as the tape WILL come off leaving you back where you started. Maybe even two layers of shrink if it looks like it is in a place that is rubbing and would eventually wear through the insulation.

Yes, this is a temporary repair until I can get into the starter area properly and get some slack in the wires. If I cannot get shrink tubing on it, I'll put another layer of tape on and some small zip ties to ensure the ends don't go anywhere. Next oil change likely.

 

[tkent02]

Another thing, don't worry about the low compression until you have it all working correctly and ride it a few thousand miles. They have a habit of getting better with use.

 

[MacGyver]

Another thing, don't worry about the low compression until you have it all working correctly and ride it a few thousand miles. They have a habit of getting better with use.

I have my doubts about that with this bike and our latest experience. After some of my repair successes last week, a ride this weekend revealed the host of other ongoing issues we have to deal with.

I adjusted the air screws, but only the ones on the right side carb made any difference. I could not find any reference to the default settings on these MSW30ss carbs, only "PRE-SET", but my experience showed that 2.5 turns out worked best (1000 m up high here in Calgary). I set the left side carb to match. The bike did idle nicely in the garage when it was hot.
After a ride, it was a different experience. The idle fluctuated all over the place during the ride and is likely an intake leak somewhere. The o-rings are in good shape, so it is either the boots or the clamps. The clamps are maxed out right now and do not appear to be putting enough tension on to seal properly, perhaps I can replace them with some generic hose clamps.
The other issue that is showing itself more and more is blue smoke from the left exhaust and from our compression tests that is likely #2 cylinder.

The aim of getting this bike was to provide the girlfriend with a comfortable learning bike while she gets her confidence up enough to ride the V-Strom. Right now to make the bike behave on city streets (it is fine opened up on the highway) we are looking at a carb rebuild, valve adjustment, new intakes, and new rings. Oh well, lesson learned - Don't buy a bike that doesn't idle nicely.

I'll do the valves, likely the carb rebuild, and play around with the intakes a bit more, but I doubt I'll put money and time into new intakes and rings.

Thanks again for the input!