tubes in mag rims?

[Boriqua]

Went and had my front tire replaced a few months back. I told the shop that it was tubeless since my '82 GS750 has mag wheels but when he pulled the wheel off he said there was indeed a tube in there so he replaced the tube when he replaced the tire. Why put a tube in a mag rim? The only reason it concerns me a bit is I wanted to carry a plug kit in case of a puncture. I carry a can of fix a flat but it can be a mess. Luckily after some 40 years of riding .. I have never had a flat or puncture but .. there is always the chance.

 

[Guest]

Went and had my front tire replaced a few months back. I told the shop that it was tubeless since my '82 GS750 has mag wheels but when he pulled the wheel off he said there was indeed a tube in there so he replaced the tube when he replaced the tire. Why put a tube in a mag rim? The only reason it concerns me a bit is I wanted to carry a plug kit in case of a puncture. I carry a can of fix a flat but it can be a mess. Luckily after some 40 years of riding .. I have never had a flat or puncture but .. there is always the chance.

I'm not positive, but there may be a difference in the shape of the rim at the bead. I've successfully run tires without tubes on a set of 78 750 mags for the last 8 years. I used a chrome car type of valve stem that sandwiches the rim instead of the standard push in type.

 

[Burque73]

If the rim has any corrosion inside the bead will leak slowly. That may be the reason there was a tube in it. I don't think shops want to take the time to clean it so they throw a tube in.

 

[Sandy]

If the rim has any corrosion inside the bead will leak slowly. That may be the reason there was a tube in it. I don't think shops want to take the time to clean it so they throw a tube in.

There's also a possible liability issue for a shop not putting a tube in when the rim is not rated as tubeless.

 

[Gorminrider]

the '82 rims were tubeless. It even says so on them. The 81 rims were slightly different to look at (the mag "spokes" appear to cross) and were not rated tubeless but are very similar in manufacture ...with the right valve I can appreciate why people do ok with tubeless tires...

Were the tires he took off tubed and did he replace them directly? Did your mechanic put tube-type tires on with the innertube? I hope so..

It's not very harmful to put tubes in tubeless tires but they have a slower speed rating than without ....also if you get a puncture on the roadside and want to fix it yourself, this combo is worse than having an actual tube tire.... the tubeless tires will still need the bead broken and then need to be re-seated once the tube is fixed - impossible on the roadside.

 

[hillsy]

When I worked in the shop we would ALWAYS run a tube on a front tyre if we plugged a puncture.

 

[Sandy]

the '82 rims were tubeless. It even says so on them. The 81 rims were slightly different to look at (the mag "spokes" appear to cross) and were not rated tubeless but are very similar in manufacture ...with the right valve I can appreciate why people do ok with tubeless tires...

Were the tires he took off tubed and did he replace them directly? Did your mechanic put tube-type tires on with the innertube? I hope so..

It's not very harmful to put tubes in tubeless tires but they have a slower speed rating than without ....also if you get a puncture on the roadside and want to fix it yourself, this combo is worse than having an actual tube tire.... the tubeless tires will still need the bead broken and then need to be re-seated once the tube is fixed - impossible on the roadside.

I don't know where you would find a decent tube type tire these days. Virtually all are tubeless but say to fit a tube if required. As for repairing, I've always used tubeless tires with a tube and change them myself at home with basic hand tools. Wouldn't be much different than doing a repair on the side of the road. I have heard about the reduction in speed rating with the tube so I'll just keep it well below 150 mph on my V rated tires then. LOL.

 

[Rob S.]

My '82 GS1100e has mag wheels with tubes. I have heard (or read) that that's the way they came in 1982. I asked my mechanic about going tubeless a couple of years ago when I bought a pair of Pirelli Sport Demons. I told him some stories from this site about folks doing just that.

He said, "it's possible, but why take the risk? The brand new Pirellis were designed to be used without tubes but your 1982 wheels were not."

Mag wheels and tubeless tires are not synonymous. As I recall, the mag wheels started appearing in the early 1980's and the tubeless tires showed up shortly thereafter.

I'm old enough to know, but too old to remember precisely. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Gorminrider]

I don't know where you would find a decent tube type tire these days

yes, in Road/Touring tires not many are TT... But offroad tires often are TT..so when you start looking for more aggressive treads you see more.... rims with spokes generally, I suppose ....as an aside looking at a Duro catalogue (for one) -it has a pretty wide choice of "vintage" tires that are tubed.

I've always used tubeless tires with a tube and change them myself at home with basic hand tools Wouldn't be much different than doing a repair on the side of the road

....Just for the sake of an interesting argument because this subject is specific to our street bike rims made during the crossover years to tubeless....it's Tubeless tires without any tube for me on any trip that I think I might need to do a roadside repair because if a fast plug and a small bicycle pump won't do it, I'm dialing out .
When I had spoked wheels I'd carry tire irons and tube patches with a bicycle pump. They are do-able because the tires don't seal to the rims...otherwise

I don't know if any of the spraycan Fix-a-flat will work on a tube...If not, I consider fixing the tube-in-tubeless is just too much junk to pack...a beadbreaker? heavy tire irons? a tube repair kit? AND it's so easy to pinch the tube and put another hole in it AND the bead must be re-set with 40-50 lbs of air. No way I will pack all that. but...that said, I'd try to seal the tube's valve stalk where it comes through the rim and then be able to push a plug into the tubeless tire and finally pump it up so breaking the bead isn't needed( ignoring the deflated tube inside of course)
If the tire broke the bead itself when it went flat (which I haven't seen one do), well...

 

[Guest]

My '82 GS1100e has mag wheels with tubes. I have heard (or read) that that's the way they came in 1982. I asked my mechanic about going tubeless a couple of years ago when I bought a pair of Pirelli Sport Demons. I told him some stories from this site about folks doing just that.

The rear wheel on my 82 1100E is marked tubeless, the front is not. That seems to be fairly common in that transitional period for Suzuki. I run tubeless on both ends and have had no issues with it. IMO, the risk of running tubeless on the front is very minimal but it is still not what the wheel was designed for and only you can decide if that bothers you or not.

FWIW, the only difference between the two types of wheel is that the bead seat is slightly different on the tubeless wheel and has an extra bump on it designed to help keep the tire on the wheel in the event of a catastrophic blowout. I have seen enough tires come off the rim when run flat (on the proper rims) that I have my doubts the tubeless bead seat works any better than the older style in that circumstance and I lose no sleep at all over it.


Mark

 

[Boriqua]

I bought the Shinko Tourmaster for the front tire and it indeed says Tubeless but I cant find any markings on the rim that say tubeless. I could have made a mistake but he charged me an extra $15 saying there was a tube in there so they just replaced it. I cant imagine he charged $15 for just removing the tube but I guess anything is possible.

There are some odd cast symbols on the rim .. is there something special I should look for. Suddenly after all these years without a flat I am worried about flatting .. Old age I guess

 

[Guest]

I bought the Shinko Tourmaster for the front tire and it indeed says Tubeless but I cant find any markings on the rim that say tubeless. I could have made a mistake but he charged me an extra $15 saying there was a tube in there so they just replaced it. I cant imagine he charged $15 for just removing the tube but I guess anything is possible.

There are some odd cast symbols on the rim .. is there something special I should look for. Suddenly after all these years without a flat I am worried about flatting .. Old age I guess

Sounds like my 1100E wheels. You can look at the valve stem and see if there is a tube or not. The $15 would be the cost of a new tube, or should be. A tubeless rim will say 'TUBELESS' or the rim size designation will have the term 'MT' in it, something like MT 2.50x17 or similar. The MT signifies the tubeless bead seat profile. On my bike the front is not tubeless and the rear has both the TUBELESS marking and the MT in the size description.

I have Shinko 230's on my 1100E, they work very well for me. All modern tires are tubeless designs, only purpose made vintage tires will be marked as tube type these days. There is no problem running tubes inside tubeless type tires.

FWIW, my bike had tubes in both ends when I bought it and I kept the tubes for the first set of tires I put on it, then switched to tubeless on both ends when I put the Shinkos on. I have a bit over 9500km on the tubeless set up now and it has been trouble free. I can't see ever going back to tubes at this point. Less unsprung weight, cooler running, less chance of a catastrophic blow out (tubes sometimes blow, tubeless tends to slowly deflate with a puncture) and easier tire changes.


Mark

 

[Gorminrider]

these are tubeless rims 1982

 

[Gorminrider]

last time, I took the trouble to start comparing the rims with pix..this is the rear rim of the above. Note the bump. next, the front...

 

[Gorminrider]

this is the front rim of the above. NO BUMP. I didn't take every picture I should have but as I remember it, the only internal difference from the earlier rims of '80 to '81 (where the alloy spokes appear to "cross") was the hole for the tire valve..gsrick's post above

I've successfully run tires without tubes on a set of 78 750 mags for the last 8 years. I used a chrome car type of valve stem that sandwiches the rim instead of the standard push in type.

is a good avenue. I've used these before but only on my tubeless rims and they work fine. (note: they come in two diameters and varying lengths AND I was told there are a couple of ways to organize their washers to suit various types of motorcycle rim valve holes...) Also , it's been mentioned before that people here are adjusting the earlier alloy tube rims to suit ta tubeless valve...I think these threaded type would be the easiest to adapt...versus the pull-through rubber ones ...

Its hard to imagine the earlier alloy was air permeable...where these in 82 were not.
The mystery is, why didn't Suzuki just make their earlier alloy rims tubeless?

 

[Guest]

I think these threaded type would be the easiest to adapt...versus the pull-through rubber ones ...

The pull through style valve stem would be very hard to adapt to our rims as the area where the valve stem sits is not at all the same dimensions as the modern tubeless rims those pull through stems are meant for. I used this stem to convert my GS rims to tubeless:

https://fortnine.ca/en/bikemaster-chrome-tubeless-valve-stem-151402

The mystery is, why didn't Suzuki just make their earlier alloy rims tubeless?

A fine question that I doubt we will ever have an answer for.


Mark

 

[Gorminrider]

^^ yup. That's them. They come in two diameters at least so anybody else watch for this before ordering..Measure!.....I think they come longer too? because some of these can be a bit short for some of my air chucks with the nut ..no room for a lock-nut on top (picture above has none) +(depending on the rubber washer placement too they can be turned over to suit better)
...I can't remember the '81s' rim (Tubed)valve hole diameter but next time my tires worn out, I will do as you others have and drill it out/reshape the seat to go tubeless in my '81 rims