• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

Turbo'd GS850G

  • Thread starter Thread starter silent_soul
  • Start date Start date
S

silent_soul

Guest
Hi,

For starters I did search and tried various ways of finding a topic about this. However If I still missed a thread explaining my question Im sorry.

Anyways What Im looking to do is run 4 small turbos on my gs850g, that or atleast 2. This is more or less for the fun of it and obviously for some increased performance.

Anyways I was curious if this has been done or if anyone would know where to start.

Thanks
-Alex
 
Hi,

For starters I did search and tried various ways of finding a topic about this. However If I still missed a thread explaining my question Im sorry.

Anyways What Im looking to do is run 4 small turbos on my gs850g, that or atleast 2. This is more or less for the fun of it and obviously for some increased performance.

Anyways I was curious if this has been done or if anyone would know where to start.

Thanks
-Alex


Nice first post Alex. Four turbos on an 850? Hummm, that would be a first. Go for it and post lots of photos.:cool:
 
Two turbos would make sense, one on each side. Probably almost the performance of a nice tight 1100, and only seventeen times as much effort.
I like it. Like Ed says, post up some pics!

Welcome to the forum, you're going to love it!
 
Last edited:
Your first task will be to find turbos that are sized for 212 cc @ 9000 rpm.
(It's hard enough to find one that is sized for 850 cc.)

Next, you will need to do some VERY creative plumbing to get the exhaust into and out of the turbines.

You going to have "suck-through" or "blow-through" carbs?
Or are you going to feed them from a plenum fed by ONE carb?
Or are you going with fuel injection?
Oh, the joys of synchronizing four carbs on turbos. :D

Don't forget to order the special "almost zero oil pressure necessary" bearings for the turbos, as the 850 only runs with 3-5 psi.

You know? I agree with the other guys.

worthless.gif


.
 
Yep the 850 is not a good candidate for a turbo. Suzuki did make a turbo bike in 83 I believe. You would need all kinds of special one off parts and lots of money to do it !!!!
 
Last edited:
Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. silent soul,

Let me share the love. :)

<< Click for a bigger picture.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.
big_hi.gif


If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....:)

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike! :D

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Last edited:
Wow, I must admit this thread got alot more response then I expected. Nice to find a place with alot of guys who ride gs's and love to chat it up.

Alot of questions were asked:

For starters Ive yet to start any work, hoping someone had done this previously

As for being insanely out there this is kinda the point, my bikes a shafty so huge power gains and what not arent really what im looking for just something super unique and fun.

I havent quite figured the best carbs for this yet, and did plan on staying carb'd(gotta love the tune, retune, retune, maybe got it...nope, and retune some more)

As far as the placement if I go with for a figured a staggered 1 up 1 down(well lower) 1 up and 1 down...maybe outsides down or up and insides down or up depending on fitment issues. Ive done plenty of welding so making the plumbing isnt an issue unless its complete impossible to fit from the get go( I dont want to chop the frame tooo much preferably not at all)

Lastly for now I realized there is a performance section if this thread belongs there by all means feel free to move it. Ill do some digging and see what I can find for turbo's. Ive got all winter and figured something like this should keep me busy through it(hopefully)
 
Hi Mr. silent soul,

Let me share the love. :)

<< Click for a bigger picture.
IIRC those XN85's were 650's ? Why? Why so small an engine when you could just buy an 1100 or 1150 and have all the power and more without the turbo lag:confused: :rolleyes:
 
Your first task will be to find turbos that are sized for 212 cc @ 9000 rpm.
(It's hard enough to find one that is sized for 850 cc.)

Next, you will need to do some VERY creative plumbing to get the exhaust into and out of the turbines.

You going to have "suck-through" or "blow-through" carbs?
Or are you going to feed them from a plenum fed by ONE carb?
Or are you going with fuel injection?
Oh, the joys of synchronizing four carbs on turbos. :D

Don't forget to order the special "almost zero oil pressure necessary" bearings for the turbos, as the 850 only runs with 3-5 psi.

You know? I agree with the other guys.

worthless.gif


.

Well I was wondering if you knew where to find turbo's that size? Ive been looking over google and cant seem to find anything. Its really driving me nuts maybe im looking the wrong way but any help would be great. Part of the problem is im not finding turbos with a cc rating.

EDIT:
seems quad turbo isnt feesible as the smallest turbo Im finding is a tad big for a 400-440cc bike so Id maybe be able to run a twin turbo set up.
 
Last edited:
There's a member here that builds turbos for a living. I've bought parts from him. I can't for the life of me think of his name. He may be up in Canada? I know - I'm a lot of help. Maybe use the search for "turbo".
 
Well I was wondering if you knew where to find turbo's that size? Ive been looking over google and cant seem to find anything. Its really driving me nuts maybe im looking the wrong way but any help would be great. Part of the problem is im not finding turbos with a cc rating.
I think you missed the point. I said "YOUR first task ..." :eek:

I don't know of any engine that small that would have a turbo. For the cost and effort involved in adding a turbo to that size engine, you could substitute a larger engine that would be easier and cheaper.

If you have never been involved in turbocharging an engine, sit down and realize what you are up against. There are kits to put a turbo on a motorcycle, so obviously, it's possible. I don't think I have ever seen a bike with twin turbos, let alone multiples. Even though you claim to have "a lot of welding" experience, just locating the turbos will be hard. By "locating", I don't mean finding them, I mean putting them on the bike. Where were you thinking of putting them?

There are two locations I have seen for the single-turbo setup. On a more-or-less stock bike, they will remove the carbs and airbox and mount the turbo in that area under the tank. The exhaust will either snake around the side of the engine, back to the turbo, or it will go under, and come up between the engine and the swingarm. (On the 850, that exhaust setup won't work.) The single exhaust from the turbo will usually exit out the left side, drop down along the frame rail, then go toward the back. On the intake side, there is a single carb that is mounted to the intake of the turbo, so at least the intake side is somewhat easy.

I know this is not on a GS, but it shows a turbo installed and the single exhaust going down and back.
This bike has the exhaust pipes under the engine, coming up to the turbo behind the engine, so you can't see them.
KZ1300turbo.jpg


Now try to duplicate that with two or four turbos.

The other installation method I have seen is usually on drag bikes. That is because the turbo is mounted low, in front of the engine. The front end might have to be raked out a bit to make room for it, but this picture shows the location:
kzturbo.jpg



Now to get down to "why".
Other than just having 'fun' or doing an engineering exercise, the main reason for using multiple turbos instead of a single one is to reduce the "lag", which is the time it take for the turbo to start making boost. A smaller turbo has less mass and will spool up quicker, giving boost quicker. A turbo small enough for the 850 will probably spool up quickly enough, I don't think the split-second difference between the single- and double-turbos would really be noticeable.

More things to consider:
Converting an engine to pressurized intake has other considerations. The compression ratio of the engine in the bike is already reasonably high for performance. By simply hanging a turbo on there, you will not be able to use much boost, meaning you won't see much of an increase in power. That's a LOT of work for not much reward. By lowering the compression ratio, you will lose a bit of power when not using boost (which will be most of the time), but will be able to use more boost, which will really wake up the engine. The cams that are in the engine are ground to maximize efficiency at the upper end of the band, while still being docile enough to give respectable performance at idle and low speeds. The very characteristics that give the cam high-end performance work against it for turbo use, so you might have to look for a milder cam, and that would have to be custom-ground.

We have several racing guys on the forum, but I have not seen any of them respond to this thread yet. Probably because virtually all of the performance-related improvements are directed at the 16-valve engines.

I agree that the concept of a turbo (or two, or four) on an 850 is interesting, but if you simply want a bit more power, pull the 850 engine out and substitute a 1000 or 1100 engine. They pretty much bolt right it, but you have to move the driveshaft over along with the engine.

Not trying to discourage you, just giving you food for thought.

.
 
this forums threads are really odd, and will take some getting used too, however I actually found a website talking about the great work of a guy who builds turbos and he apparently lives in canada. It was on a kz forum that i belong for my 440s ive redone. ill take a look at that site though.
 
There is probably some turbo out there that can be made to work with the 850, but it will probably be a bit oversize. I think the brick wall you will hit will be finding pistons for an 850 capable of dealing with turbocharged compression ratios. The bottom line is that not enough performance parts were marketed for the 850. You'll have to come up with your own stuff. Which would be a fascinating project covering several years.

If you mount a 1000G motor in your frame, that will open up some options. Gobs more usable power right off the bat. The chain drive 1000 was raced, and a lot of the performance parts will fit, yielding even more oomph. There may even be some precedent for adding a turbo. Plan on repairing and reinforcing the output flange and drive shaft. The bevel gears should wear faster with high-torque play, but they will survive. But the bottom line is that performance parts will be available to go with your turbocharging ideas. Even easier if you start with a 16V 1100. Or rather, much less difficult.
 
Even easier if you start with a 16V 1100. Or rather, much less difficult.
Until you take into account that whole chain / shaft drive thing.

As far as I know, there were no 16-valve shafties (except for the GSX1100G, made from '91 to '94) and all 850s were shaft-driven. :o

.
 
Last edited:
I think you missed the point. I said "YOUR first task ..." :eek:

I don't know of any engine that small that would have a turbo. For the cost and effort involved in adding a turbo to that size engine, you could substitute a larger engine that would be easier and cheaper.

If you have never been involved in turbocharging an engine, sit down and realize what you are up against. There are kits to put a turbo on a motorcycle, so obviously, it's possible. I don't think I have ever seen a bike with twin turbos, let alone multiples. Even though you claim to have "a lot of welding" experience, just locating the turbos will be hard. By "locating", I don't mean finding them, I mean putting them on the bike. Where were you thinking of putting them?

There are two locations I have seen for the single-turbo setup. On a more-or-less stock bike, they will remove the carbs and airbox and mount the turbo in that area under the tank. The exhaust will either snake around the side of the engine, back to the turbo, or it will go under, and come up between the engine and the swingarm. (On the 850, that exhaust setup won't work.) The single exhaust from the turbo will usually exit out the left side, drop down along the frame rail, then go toward the back. On the intake side, there is a single carb that is mounted to the intake of the turbo, so at least the intake side is somewhat easy.

I know this is not on a GS, but it shows a turbo installed and the single exhaust going down and back.
This bike has the exhaust pipes under the engine, coming up to the turbo behind the engine, so you can't see them.
KZ1300turbo.jpg


Now try to duplicate that with two or four turbos.

The other installation method I have seen is usually on drag bikes. That is because the turbo is mounted low, in front of the engine. The front end might have to be raked out a bit to make room for it, but this picture shows the location:
kzturbo.jpg



Now to get down to "why".
Other than just having 'fun' or doing an engineering exercise, the main reason for using multiple turbos instead of a single one is to reduce the "lag", which is the time it take for the turbo to start making boost. A smaller turbo has less mass and will spool up quicker, giving boost quicker. A turbo small enough for the 850 will probably spool up quickly enough, I don't think the split-second difference between the single- and double-turbos would really be noticeable.

More things to consider:
Converting an engine to pressurized intake has other considerations. The compression ratio of the engine in the bike is already reasonably high for performance. By simply hanging a turbo on there, you will not be able to use much boost, meaning you won't see much of an increase in power. That's a LOT of work for not much reward. By lowering the compression ratio, you will lose a bit of power when not using boost (which will be most of the time), but will be able to use more boost, which will really wake up the engine. The cams that are in the engine are ground to maximize efficiency at the upper end of the band, while still being docile enough to give respectable performance at idle and low speeds. The very characteristics that give the cam high-end performance work against it for turbo use, so you might have to look for a milder cam, and that would have to be custom-ground.

We have several racing guys on the forum, but I have not seen any of them respond to this thread yet. Probably because virtually all of the performance-related improvements are directed at the 16-valve engines.

I agree that the concept of a turbo (or two, or four) on an 850 is interesting, but if you simply want a bit more power, pull the 850 engine out and substitute a 1000 or 1100 engine. They pretty much bolt right it, but you have to move the driveshaft over along with the engine.

Not trying to discourage you, just giving you food for thought.

.

I had a feeling Id be responsible for tracking the turbo's(cant blame me for looking to see if anyone had anything already known lol)

I suppose alittle more planning and then maybe a thread would have been a better idea. To be honest a quad turbo'd bike is looking to be pretty impossible. However a twin turbo'd bike might not be nearly as impossible.

The point of this is and while it sounds like a waste, is not for performance but for uniqueness. Locally 04-09 gsxr's are a dime a dozen, busa's and harley's while fewer are also not rare by any stretch. Id like to be completely unique as whats the fun in riding exactly or super close too what everyone else is on?

As for replacing the 850 with a 1K or bigger Im actually thinking that might be a better idea for now and then later on turbo that. If this engine swap is done I would convert it too chain for sure as then Id be less in the fun market and move more to the fun and high performing market which would probably be a step in the right direction.

Its really becoming more clear also that the battery will need to be moved and alot will actually be needed to move to get this to work. I have a fair understanding for a turbo BUT does a turbo require a specific angle or can it be more or less crammed in upside or whatever which way i need?

Now this leads me to something Im still trying to make heads or tails of, Does the 850 have the frame of a 1K but basically a bored up 750 motor?
 
...
As for replacing the 850 with a 1K or bigger Im actually thinking that might be a better idea for now and then later on turbo that. If this engine swap is done I would convert it too chain for sure as then Id be less in the fun market and move more to the fun and high performing market which would probably be a step in the right direction.

Its really becoming more clear also that the battery will need to be moved and alot will actually be needed to move to get this to work. I have a fair understanding for a turbo BUT does a turbo require a specific angle or can it be more or less crammed in upside or whatever which way i need?

Now this leads me to something Im still trying to make heads or tails of, Does the 850 have the frame of a 1K but basically a bored up 750 motor?

Shaft to chain conversion and vice-versa is another only-possible-with-enough-time-and-money thing.

The relationships between 750, 850 and 1000 depend on what year. Up to late '81, the 750 and 850 were related. After that, the 850 is more like the 1000.

I'm not sure on the turbocharger orientation question. My guess is that they prefer any orientation where the shaft is horizontal. There is probably varying tolerance for vertical positioning depending on model.

The fact that you're thinking about changing an 850 to chain drive suggests that you don't have much motorcycle work experience. In which case, this whole thing will be way over your head. Start with maintenance, then tuning, then mods, then you can attempt re-engineering the whole engine.
 
Shaft to chain conversion and vice-versa is another only-possible-with-enough-time-and-money thing.

The relationships between 750, 850 and 1000 depend on what year. Up to late '81, the 750 and 850 were related. After that, the 850 is more like the 1000.

I'm not sure on the turbocharger orientation question. My guess is that they prefer any orientation where the shaft is horizontal. There is probably varying tolerance for vertical positioning depending on model.

The fact that you're thinking about changing an 850 to chain drive suggests that you don't have much motorcycle work experience. In which case, this whole thing will be way over your head. Start with maintenance, then tuning, then mods, then you can attempt re-engineering the whole engine.

As for changing over to chain was in reference to replacing the motor. Because if im putting a different motor In might as well change the whole bike over to a chain drive which would be new rear wheel and swingarm among other things. I have no desire to change the 850 shafty to a chain.

And yes my turbo question was about the placement whether it matters much what angle the shaft is at, I assumed horizontal but was curious if it really mattered all that much.

My bike is a 79 btw so takes more after a 750?
 
The point of this is and while it sounds like a waste, is not for performance but for uniqueness. Locally 04-09 gsxr's are a dime a dozen, busa's and harley's while fewer are also not rare by any stretch. Id like to be completely unique as whats the fun in riding exactly or super close too what everyone else is on?
If your primary goal is to be "unique", all you have to do is show up on a STOCK GS. :eek:

Precious few of them show up at bike meets, you will get a lot of attention with a stock 850. :D
(Especially with your '79. It was the only year that had a kick starter.)


As for replacing the 850 with a 1K or bigger Im actually thinking that might be a better idea for now and then later on turbo that. If this engine swap is done I would convert it too chain for sure as then Id be less in the fun market and move more to the fun and high performing market which would probably be a step in the right direction.
Converting a shaft bike to a chain would be an exercise in futility. Besides the obvious difference in the engine, the frame is different, as well as the swingarm and wheel. It would be far easier (and cheaper) to sell the shaftie and just start with the chain-drive bike in the first place.

Let's face it; after changing the engine, frame, swingarm and rear wheel, all you have left is the forks, seat and body work. :D


Its really becoming more clear also that the battery will need to be moved and alot will actually be needed to move to get this to work. I have a fair understanding for a turbo BUT does a turbo require a specific angle or can it be more or less crammed in upside or whatever which way i need?
Virtually all of the ones that I have seen, the shaft was horizontal. Not sure if it's a requirement, though.


Now this leads me to something Im still trying to make heads or tails of, Does the 850 have the frame of a 1K but basically a bored up 750 motor?
The part number cross-reference shows that the frames of the '80 and '81 850 and 1000 are the same.
It also shows that the frames of the '82 and '83 850 and 1100 are the same, but different from the earlier frames.

Not sure what changed from '79 to '80 that would affect the frame, but it has a different part number.
Might have been as simple as different mounting tabs for the airbox, I just don't know. :o

.
 
Back
Top