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Valve springs on top of fork springs?

willie

willie

Forum Mentor
Past Site Supporter
FWIW, I used the Search feature before posting this but didn't find what I was looking for. So here goes...I reassembled the forks on my 1100G today and was surprised at how little effort it took to push the cap down to get the threads started. This made me wonder if the springs could be on the weak side and if I could improve them by removing the metal tube/spacer and adding a valve spring and other spacer (PVC?) to make up the difference of the length of the metal piece that I removed. Has anyone tried this and if so was it worth while? Speaking of worth....I'm trying to address this problem with as little out of my pocket as possible.
Thanks,
Willie in TN
 
Removing the spacer and replacing it with a spring will make the spring rate go down. Think about it: you are replacing a non compressible spacer with a compressible spring.

Your best bet is to pull out the springs and cut off about 3 inches of coils and then fashion some new PVC spacers to replace both your old spacer and the length of coils cut off. This will increase the spring rate of your forks and increase the ride height slightly as well.
 
Last edited:
Nessism said:
Removing the spacer and replacing it with a spring will make the spring rate go down. Think about it: you are replacing a non compressible spacer with a compressible spring.

Your best bet is to pull out the springs and cut off about 3 inches of coils and then fashion some new PVC spacers to replace both your old spacer and the length of coils cut off - 3" worth in my suggestion. This will increase the spring rate of your forks and increase the ride height slightly as well.
Click to expand...

agree with Ed :-\\\; cutting the spring down is going to increase stiffness because to compress a certain length across fewer coils requires those fewer coils to compress further. The higher compression of the remaining coils means the spring is stiffer.

A heavier fork oil might be in order,but changing the fork oil will not compensate for static sag.

speaking of static sag, that is what you are trying to achieve while insuring that you are getting adequate range out of the suspension. A trick used is to put a zip tie around the forks to see how much you compress the suspension during riding.

Generally you never want to completely compress and if you only see only 1/2 the range (under spirited riding conditions) then you probably have it too stiff. There are various sources for setting static sag look at the Ohlins website for suspension tuning procedures.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=994640&postcount=7


the proceedure is generic and dosenot only apply to Ohlins shocks
 
I'd just spend the $60 and get some progressive fork springs.
 
Nessism said:
Removing the spacer and replacing it with a spring will make the spring rate go down. Think about it: you are replacing a non compressible spacer with a compressible spring.
Click to expand...
Ya know. The same thought crossed my mind last night. Duh! Now, instead of cutting 3" off the stock spring and making a new spacer, wouldn't adding a couple of inches (a valve spring) be better? My rationale being that you're increasing stiffness without giving up any compressability.
Thanks for the responses.
Willie
 
Nessism said:
Removing the spacer and replacing it with a spring will make the spring rate go down. Think about it: you are replacing a non compressible spacer with a compressible spring.

Your best bet is to pull out the springs and cut off about 3 inches of coils and then fashion some new PVC spacers to replace both your old spacer and the length of coils cut off. This will increase the spring rate of your forks and increase the ride height slightly as well.
Click to expand...

That explains the the 2.5" spring that fell out of the bottom of my fork when I pulled them apart...I thought it snapped off the main spring but it clearly was added for a purpose.
 
willie said:
Ya know. The same thought crossed my mind last night. Duh! Now, instead of cutting 3" off the stock spring and making a new spacer, wouldn't adding a couple of inches (a valve spring) be better? My rationale being that you're increasing stiffness without giving up any compressability.
Thanks for the responses.
Willie
Click to expand...

You want to add a valve spring on top of your existing springs and spacer? Doing so will increase preload on the existing spring, which will increase ride height, but will not increase the spring rate. Cutting out coils is the way to increase spring rate.
 
Yes, Ed, on top of the existing spring and spacer. I realize that I'd be increasing the preload. That was pretty much my original intent. I just thought it best to add a compressive (but very stiff) preload instead of one thats solid. In a sense, I see it as a cheap way to make it a dual rate spring. No?
I guess I made the mistake of using stiffness interchangably with spring rate. Wouldn't adding preload, regardless of manner, increase the stiffness of the forks? And by stiffness, I mean the amount of effort required to compress the forks.
Willie
 
Adding preload to the forks will make them ride higher and they may feel slightly stiffer but it doesn't increase spring rate.
 
jwhelan65 said:
That explains the the 2.5" spring that fell out of the bottom of my fork when I pulled them apart...I thought it snapped off the main spring but it clearly was added for a purpose.
Click to expand...

Joe,

The 2.5" spring is part of the 700's fork assembly. #8 on the schematic.

Unless you found 3 springs per fork. :-k


Eric
 
More than one spring is just a way of changing spring curve, much like the progressive wind.

In some 550 forks I dumped the 4" additional spring & put in a 4" spacer, worked great.

In my opinion putting in a valve spring is a waste of time! If you want more preload add more spacer without cutting the spring. Putting in a valve spring would be like putting in less spacer just a complicated way of adding more preload.

Dan :)
 
does anyone have any idea what the spring rate of the valve spring is compared to the fork springs? that would be the determining factor as to whether you were increasing of decreasing the net spring rate :confused:

Obviously the spring rate of a spacer is very high :rolleyes:

salty_monk said:
More than one spring is just a way of changing spring curve, much like the progressive wind.

In some 550 forks I dumped the 4" additional spring & put in a 4" spacer, worked great.

In my opinion putting in a valve spring is a waste of time! If you want more preload add more spacer without cutting the spring. Putting in a valve spring would be like putting in less spacer just a complicated way of adding more preload.

Dan :)
Click to expand...
 
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