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Well, it is my turn for troubleshooting

Redman

Redman

Forum Guru
Super Site Supporter
Past Site Supporter
(more of a story of troubleshooting charging system)

Was out and about doing a few things yesterday afternoon. Went here and there and another place. Went to leave, hit the starter button and starter only gave one little grunt and then nothing. Waited a minute, and same thing.

Obviously battery not charged.
Didnt leave the driving lights on again, did I? Nope.
I didnt notice it start slow on other occassions recently. hum...
(But good thing this did not happen 350 miles from home.)

Pull headlight fuse. Didnt make any difference.

I ponder my three options:
- call wife to hook up trialer and come get me. Doah, dont have my phone with me.
- Recruit some passerbys to help push start. All folks around look like tourist in sandals and/or expensive golf-resorter clothes.
- Try bump starting it myself. THere is a small incline on a driveway over there, but is heading out into traffic.

SO I was able to bump start it on that small incline. Abondond my other plans and head straight home. By the time I got home it was starting to not run so well.

Measured battery voltage at just over 10 volts. Was going to check the fluid level, but, oh, yah, its a AGM that cant see thru case and is a sealed unit (and no caps under the label, I checked). Put on the battery tender and it took hours before was charged.

Go it started, and yep, no charging.

Will look into it more this afternoon, maybe, have other things going on today.

First will check:
- visuall check over the wiring in general
- stator ohms
- stator no load voltage
- ohm check - diode check the R/R

.
 
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diode check.

diode check.

Have found chart in manaul for ohm checking the R/R (which I know is not a very complete test).

I understand that using the diode check on meter is a better check, but not finding what values to expect. I assume that the three input leads to the output lead should be the same, then reverse poolarity and should all be the same. And output to ground, and input to ground ....

.
 
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It must be the time for charging problems. I was out and about yesterday and noticed my voltmeter (am I glad I added that!) showed lower that normal voltage. Made it back to the house and verified no charging at the battery. I was lucky to quickly find a burned wire in a four-conductor plug. I cut the plug out and used individual spade connectors for the wires. All is now well.
 
Oh... It is the stator papers that described how to use the diode test feature of meter to check the R/R. Okay. Will get to that later.




.
 
Hi Dave,

Congratulations! You get to install a new stator. ;)

Just to let you know, the Rick's Electrics stator is my favorite one as of late. If you have one of duageage's r/r units, I'll wager that it's OK. Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Just have a look at this?

Just have a look at this?

Are the contacts to the fuse box good for the battery main and the ignition?
Mine sucked, too many crimp connections, so I just soldered direct to the fuse box. Big difference.
Eliminate all crimp connections, convert them to soldered connections.
Bill
 
BassCliff said:
Hi Dave,

Congratulations! You get to install a new stator. ;)

Just to let you know, the Rick's Electrics stator is my favorite one as of late. If you have one of duageage's r/r units, I'll wager that it's OK. Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
Click to expand...


How in heck do you go through stators?
Is it the california ambient temps? Are you running at too high an RPM and causing the thing to die?

Get one them computronic things and do a test man.
 
Buffalo Bill said:
Are the contacts to the fuse box good for the battery main and the ignition?
.....Bill
Click to expand...

Just a couple weeks ago I did check voltdrop from battery to coils and from R/R+ to battery+ and from R/R- to battery-. Was all about nothing. Didnt check anything of fuse box. Mine connected with a connector plugged into bottom of fuse box, dont know if can get at the actaull connections inside it. DOnt suspect any problem there.

Good to hear from you Bill.

Did find stator no-load volts were abnormal ( as stated before), and later did find the stator ohms to ground to be a few ohms instead of infinite.

Also did diode check of R/R and all as expected. But is a Honda/Shindenwhatever/Duanagge R/R with the sence lead. I dont know what to expect on diode test for that lead.
 
Redman, IIRC there is not a diode on the sense wire, so there is no need to test it. Think of it as terminal 86 on a Bosch-style relay. It merely activates the R/R, nothing more.
 
koolaid_kid said:
Redman, IIRC there is not a diode on the sense wire, so there is no need to test it. Think of it as terminal 86 on a Bosch-style relay. It merely activates the R/R, nothing more.
Click to expand...

VT500_RR_86_scan_e.jpg
 
O.K., that shows a magic "black box" in the IC sensor. If we imagine the voltage coming in the black wire, part of it probably goes to ground, activating something inside the IC sensor. This may be the path you are exercising when you perform a diode check on the black wire.
Part of the voltage may go to each diode line (or it could be merely completing a circuit, allowing current to flow). Since the 3 diodes on the right block the voltage going that way, we could assume it goes to the 3 diodes on the lower left.
Assuming the engine is running so the stator is sending A/C voltage to the diodes on the right, when they are activated the circuit is complete and the stator is providing power. What is not clear in this diagram is how the diodes on the right are switched on to complete the circuit. Nor is it clear how the voltage is shunted back to the stator when needed.
Does this make sense? I readily admit to being a DC guy myself, spending the majority of my time on bike and car circuits (post-charging system).
 
Well,it is my turn for troubleshooting, reply

Well,it is my turn for troubleshooting, reply

Test battery voltage,charge to 12 VDC.

Test stator leads for continuity to ground,there should be no reading.

Check rectifier to see if any wires are burned.

Start engine,take DC voltage test at battery terminals,you should read 14VDC at 2500 rpm,any less will cause battery to drain when riding.

Run # 14 wire using ring terminals from mounting post of starter solenoid to negative terminal at battery, to eliminate ground path resistance of battery case.

Open fuse box and look for any connections that are showing melting plastic, using oxide inhibitor sparsely to increase conductivity of connections.

Remove headlight and inspect connections to affirm there is no conductors coming in contact with any grounded parts.

Inspect any conductor connections to the frame, these are grounded intentionaly and require good conductivity, oxide inhibitor helps.

Follow the wiring harness and look for any pinch points which may be causing an accidental ground.

Good luck and most likely the problem will surely be a combination of faults that will be cleared upon inspection and service.
 
You don't want that 'ol bike anyhow?

You don't want that 'ol bike anyhow?

Redman said:
yep

yep

yep

yep. Problem was stator shorted to ground.

yep.

yep.
Click to expand...
Does that mean that you just have to fix the wire, and not replace the stator?
If that's too expensive, just sell me your bike for the cost of a new stator.
You can drive to Newaygo and buy some jerkey with the money. ;)
Bill
 
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