What's the skinny on the use of tubeless tires on a 1980 GS750E?

[Sandy]

The best advantage going tubeless is that should you pick up a puncture while on a road trip you can plug it on the spot and move on. That is if one has planned ahead and taken a small 12 volt compressor with them..or similar preps for some sort of air source have been taken in to consideration.

All good Chuck if you catch the air loss before the tire deflates enough to roll off the bead.

 

[Nessism]

All good Chuck if you catch the air loss before the tire deflates enough to roll off the bead.

Same argument applies for tube type tires. A deflated tire is a deflated tire. If the pressure is low to the point where the tire comes off the bead it won't matter if there is a tube inside or not.

 

[Cipher]

Was Suzukis supplier just to stubbrn to change its casting process or did they have a ship load of old style r non DOT apprved for tubeles in stock.

Tubes are not expensive unless your like me in old dirt bike days with rusty rims that were prone to pinching a hole in yur nice tube.

 

[Guest]

I have no religious affiliation in this argument, BUT, I wonder if anyone can point to a single actual case of a tubeless on a suzuki tube type rim causing a problem? Cause the whole "YER GONNA DIE" thing smacks of flat-earther, sound-barrier stuff.

 

[Sandy]

I have no religious affiliation in this argument, BUT, I wonder if anyone can point to a single actual case of a tubeless on a suzuki tube type rim causing a problem? Cause the whole "YER GONNA DIE" thing smacks of flat-earther, sound-barrier stuff.

I wouldn't know, I run tubes where required/recommended. The OP mentioned he is a NEW rider asking for advice. All I can say is that it's called a safety bead for a reason and there is also a reason they quit using the old taper bead shortly after the introduction of tubeless tires, like maybe one year. People want to do otherwise feel free to that, it's your neck.

 

[Nessism]

I have no religious affiliation in this argument, BUT, I wonder if anyone can point to a single actual case of a tubeless on a suzuki tube type rim causing a problem? Cause the whole "YER GONNA DIE" thing smacks of flat-earther, sound-barrier stuff.

The tube people can't provide evidence because it doesn't exist.

Their argument goes out the window when you realize that the OEM's were selling bikes with tubeless tires using rims that did not have the extra safety bumps to keep the tire seated.

Those safety bumps ARE a positive safety feature, but they are not strictly necessary to be able to run a tubeless tire. The OEM's knew that which is why they installed tubeless tires without them.

 

[Gorminrider]

tube tires are easier to mount, I think.... "looser" and easier to get off on the roadside in the event of a leak...

I've not yet had a puncture with tubes inside tubeless tires .but I think the combo of tubeless with inner-tubes could be iffy in that case...
Tubeless tires on these rims seal up really well, so I won't bother taking tire irons on a trip because I will likely need to break the bead too to get to a punctured tube and that's a b*gger on the roadside! - instead, I would push a plug into the tubeless tire which is great! but then have to worry a little bit about the airtight integrity of the tube-valve coming through rim...a bit of sealant or globs of thread lock? or something similar worth investigating...

sooo, I'd be very inclined to do the valve conversion others have before putting tubeless tires on.

 

[Guest]

so, more of "YER GONNA DIE" then. I also wonder how much actual engineering went into the "safety bead" or if they were more like "YER GONNA DIE" and some intern was like "but how bout a safety bead tho" and they were like "oh, ok, sure then"

Any enterprising engineering students out need a study for a thesis?

I wouldn't know, I run tubes where required/recommended. The OP mentioned he is a NEW rider asking for advice. All I can say is that it's called a safety bead for a reason and there is also a reason they quit using the old taper bead shortly after the introduction of tubeless tires, like maybe one year. People want to do otherwise feel free to that, it's your neck.

 

[Sandy]

tube tires are easier to mount, I think.... "looser" and easier to get off on the roadside in the event of a leak...

I've not yet had a puncture with tubes inside tubeless tires .but I think the combo of tubeless with inner-tubes could be iffy in that case...
Tubeless tires on these rims seal up really well, so I won't bother taking tire irons on a trip because I will likely need to break the bead too to get to a punctured tube and that's a b*gger on the roadside! - instead, I would push a plug into the tubeless tire which is great! but then have to worry a little bit about the airtight integrity of the tube-valve coming through rim...a bit of sealant or globs of thread lock? or something similar worth investigating...

sooo, I'd be very inclined to do the valve conversion others have before putting tubeless tires on.

Interesting scenario and probably worth a try to save a roadside repair, although really NOT recommend. I worked part time back when they were converting over to tubeless at the local Suzuki/Yahama dealer many years ago to support my habit and on occasion someone would come in with a weird tire problem or something was difficult to balance and I find a deflated and sometimes shredded tube inside a tire mounted on tube type alloy wheels. So yes, in a pinch you could probably get away that, however I'd do a proper fix at my earliest convenience.

 

[Sandy]

so, more of "YER GONNA DIE" then. I also wonder how much actual engineering went into the "safety bead" or if they were more like "YER GONNA DIE" and some intern was like "but how bout a safety bead tho" and they were like "oh, ok, sure then"

Any enterprising engineering students out need a study for a thesis?

No. You're probably not going die and you're probably not going to have an issue. If you enjoy riding these things and that probably won't ever happen then just go have fun. Keyword here is probably. A bad comparison I know but I've never needed my seatbelt in 50 years of driving but if I go for a drive I always put it on. If I didn't, 50 years of driving says I'd probably be alright.

 

[Cipher]

anyone want to email ENKEI or ASAHI and ask an actual engineer involved in the transition? I doubt many are around now but at least the answers would be based on facts.

 

[sharpy]

The tube people can't provide evidence because it doesn't exist.

.

Im not worried about evidence. I just feel safer when my front wheel "lands" 200lbs of front end on the ground at 185kph and theres a tube inside helping me to be as safe as possible. Yes i dont do it all the time but any good ride involves me doing that at least 3 times a ride. Im not a loonie, just act like one. Do what ya want, its your bike.

 

[Sandy]

The tube people can't provide evidence because it doesn't exist.

Their argument goes out the window when you realize that the OEM's were selling bikes with tubeless tires using rims that did not have the extra safety bumps to keep the tire seated.

Those safety bumps ARE a positive safety feature, but they are not strictly necessary to be able to run a tubeless tire. The OEM's knew that which is why they installed tubeless tires without them.

Nope, no evidence here and not planning to be the first any time soon. Pretty small sample group, maybe a year or two only, for a tire/rim combination that they quit producing when they realized the error of their ways.

 

[Nessism]

You tube guys got nothing but speculation. You ASSUME that a tube will reduce the chance for a sudden deflation such as would occur if a tubeless tire came off the bead. But the only way for the tire to come off the bead is if it's drastically deflated already. If the pressure is low to the point where the tire can come off the bead it will occur regardless of whether or not there is a tube inside the tire or not. And let's say the tire does come off the bead and there is a tube inside, do you actually think the tube will push the tire back on the bead? Really?

 

[Sandy]

You tube guys got nothing but speculation. You ASSUME that a tube will reduce the chance for a sudden deflation such as would occur if a tubeless tire came off the bead. But the only way for the tire to come off the bead is if it's drastically deflated already. If the pressure is low to the point where the tire can come off the bead it will occur regardless of whether or not there is a tube inside the tire or not. And let's say the tire does come off the bead and there is a tube inside, do you actually think the tube will push the tire back on the bead? Really?

Pretty much wrong on that theory. At low pressure a during minor momentary bead shift/separation the tube will maintain air and push the tire back against the bead enough to keep from pinching the tube and maintain pressure. That event without a tube will lead to immediate deflation.

 

[Nessism]

Pretty much wrong on that theory. At low pressure a during minor momentary bead shift/separation the tube will maintain air and push the tire back against the bead enough to keep from pinching the tube and maintain pressure. That event without a tube will lead to immediate deflation.

I doubt it.

The tire bead will have to shift about 1/2" inward away from the rim shoulder before it would come away from the rim and deflate (tubelsss). No way some soggy deflated tube pushes the tire sidewall back on the bead.

 

[sharpy]

So your telling me the tyre has to be 1/2" away from the rim before the tire would start to deflate? If not. please tell me what is the minimum you think a tyre needs to be to loose air? Remember this isnt a trick question and it isnt about tube or non tube, if just fact about what you think the air gap is to deflate a tubeless tyre.

 

[Nessism]

Yes, the tire sidewall would have to move inward away from the rim shoulder by about 1/2" before a gap between the tire and rim would develop and the tire would depressurize.

Basically, the outside edge of the tire would have to move all the way inboard until the tire fell into the valley between the beads. If this occurred and a tube was present, the tube would shoot into the gap and get pinched.

 

[Sandy]

I doubt it.

The tire bead will have to shift about 1/2" inward away from the rim shoulder before it would come away from the rim and deflate (tubelsss). No way some soggy deflated tube pushes the tire sidewall back on the bead.

Read what I typed Ed. I said push it back against the bead, it's obvious there's not enough to reseat the bead. You'll still have some air left, better than no air left.

 

[Nessism]

Read what I typed Ed. I said push it back against the bead, it's obvious there's not enough to reseat the bead. You'll still have some air left, better than no air left.

How much air are you talking about? Again, I doubt a saggy deflated tube inside will do much to improve safety.