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Where is the oil going?

  • Thread starter Thread starter flyingace
  • Start date Start date
F

flyingace

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My 83 850 eats a little more than a quart every thousand miles. Compression readings range from 145 to 127 - not so bad as to explain the oil use. The bike runs like a champ and the plugs are all light tan.

I see no obvious leaks. Is it possible that this much oil is going down the valve stems because of bad seals? They have never been replaced.

Thanks in advance.
 
how many miles on the bike? Its possible that you're burning a bit on start up till the bike is warm every day thru the seals, but a quart less than every 1000 miles seems a little excessive. You sure you have no leaks around the oil pan gasket/shifter shaft/drainplug/filter cap? Small leaks here will generally cling to the underside of the motor, and you may never SEE it lose a drop. Both my 1100G and my 1100ES have had slight leaks such as these, yet never a drop visible on the ground. Take a look at the underside of the bike, and you may find some oil here and there. Usually the leak is slow and oil gets blown off while in motion, but never leaks fast enough to leave a puddle...
 
Thanks for the info Kid. The bike has almost 47K, but only about 10K on these rings.

It is kind of gunky down there by the oil pan, so I'll clean that up and see if I can spot a leak. That would explain the loss better than valve-stem seals since I don't see any white smoke at start-up.
 
Back again. If my math is right, I'm going thru an ounce of oil every 32 or so miles. I just degreased and pressure washed the engine and rode it for 100 miles. Nothing external is leaking oil at that rate.

So, where the heck is my oil going?
 
Were the valves checked & seales replaced ?? If they were Its probably time for a rebore?? Did you measure things when it was apart ? Has the motor been hot?
If it was mine Just keep an eye on the oil level and ride it!!!
 
Thats a quart every 1024 miles by your math...thats not completely unreasonable for a motor, especially if ridden relatively hard. My 1100G had no leaks that I ever found after i fixed the cam end plugs, and I used about 3/4 of a quart on our WV trip, which was over 1000 miles that weekend. Mind you it wasnt ridden like a demon, but it was ridden well, and did alot of hill climbing at speed. It also burnt just a touch on start up if it had been sitting on the side stand for a day or so. Likely the valve seals were starting to wear a bit, but sealed up when they got hot. At your present rate of consumption, I wouldnt really worry about it yet. Ride it, mind your level, and change it every 2K. If it increases the amount it uses pretty quickly, THEN I'd start looking to re-ring, and change the valve seals.
 
I ride very conservatively. The rings are fairly new and the compression is pettty good (145 - 127). Since the valve stem seals have never been replaced, I think they must be the culprit. The other possibility is I installed the oil control rings incorrerctly, and they are allowing too much oil into the chamber. I kind of doubt I did this, however.

I'm just going to ride it and let it eat oil. I have a new set of valve stem seals ready, but I'm not going to dismantle the engine just for that unless it gets lot worse.

Thanks for your replys everybody.
 
So hang on, you want an answer, but you arnt going to do anything about it...

i will keep my opinion on the problem to myself then... :rolleyes:
 
You can do the valve seals without pulling the head, but I think you'd have to pull the engine to get at the valve keepers. I'd probably shell out for another head gasket and pull the head though (or not worry about it).
 
p_s said:
You can do the valve seals without pulling the head, but I think you'd have to pull the engine to get at the valve keepers. I'd probably shell out for another head gasket and pull the head though (or not worry about it).
Click to expand...
You MAY be able to replace the seals with out pulling the head, but it will be MUCH MUCH more of a PITA, in my opinion. You need to compress the valve springs to get the keepers off, and to do that you need a spring compressor, which pretty much looks like a C clamp. I am not sure howd youd compress the valve springs otherwise, but pretty much count on haveing to pull the head to to this job. You do NOT need to pull the motor from the bike, however. A complete valve seal job, start to finish, should really only take you 3 hours, if you're slow, and still learning. Its NOT as tough as it sounds.
 
TheCafeKid said:
You MAY be able to replace the seals with out pulling the head, but it will be MUCH MUCH more of a PITA, in my opinion. You need to compress the valve springs to get the keepers off, and to do that you need a spring compressor, which pretty much looks like a C clamp.
Click to expand...
I tapped on a big socket to get the keepers off and used my thumbs to put them back on. I tried using a c-clamp and a pvc spacer with a window in it, but it was far more of a pain in the ass. I'm sure with the right valve spring compressor it's easier but I don't plan on doing another top-end job for a long time.
 
so, when replacing the valve seals without taking the head off, what do you do to hold the valves in position to put the keepers back on?
 
psyguy said:
so, when replacing the valve seals without taking the head off, what do you do to hold the valves in position to put the keepers back on?
Click to expand...
It can be done with compressed air injected through the spark plug hole to keep the valves seated. Leak down testers utilize fittings that screw into the spark plug threads in the head. I've also heard of people running a piece of rope into the cylinder then raise the piston in the cylinder so the rope contacts the valves to keep them from dropping.
 
It would be great if I didn't have to take the head off because I would need to replace the head gasket this time around. I'm going to study the possibility very carefully.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Those both sound really plausible, and pretty easy actually, but, if and when I do a valve seal job, it is MY belief that the head should be removed completely, the valves taken out and cleaned, and the seats inspected. Oil passing the seals will build up on the back of the valves as it burns, most times incompletely, and cause the valve not to seat all the way, making your valve clearance readings false. Im not saying thats what everyone should do, nor that its the BEST way, but just something that *I* do for piece of mind. I also generally clean the piston crowns, and check the bores while im at it. If you're carefull, you can usually get the head off without disturbing the base gasket, but not always, so i would also pull the jugs, inspect the pistons and rings, and replace the base gasket. If need be, the bores can be honed as well. Its a full afternoon job, thats it, and IMO well worth it for peice of mind. Keep in mind that generally, if your bike doesnt sit for a long period of time allowing the valve seals to dry out, or you dont drag race, those seals will last quite a few 10K miles, so i consider it a good time to do all that stuff anyway. Hell, as far as I know, the GS1100GK i got from Grandpa, which will likely get a top end job done this winter, has NEVER had the head off, and it has 140ish THOUSAND miles on it and just BARELY leaks thru the seals a bit on start up. Pretty impressive really.
 
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145-127 psi compression? seems kinda low for a new re-ring. I think to expect at least 150 on all.
My bike with 65,000 km's has 145-120 psi on it.
 
gearhead13 said:
145-127 psi compression? seems kinda low for a new re-ring. I think to expect at least 150 on all.
My bike with 65,000 km's has 145-120 psi on it.
Click to expand...
They dont sound rediculously low to me, and they're well above service limits. Remember that pistons are generally NOT exactly the same size, and thats part of the reason the rings are springy to begin with. At any rate, I do have a concern, and it may be way off, but I THOUGHT that i remembered reading in my various manuals that if the cylinders were a certain percentage apart from eachother in compression, that there may be a problem. Im not possitive, but you may want to check that out. While they are all above service limits, they may be bellow the required compression in relation to eachother. This sort of makes sense to me in my head, as if your cylinders compression is alot higher on one or more than another or more, the crank may be loaded unevenly, resulting in issues. Plus the cylinders may load up to the point where it seems to lope when it hits a low cylinder vs a high one. In which case you may have a cylinder wall issue, or a valve seating issue? Im not sure again, so you might want to investigate that theory.

TCK
 
Good Morning All
I have the same issue as Flyingace, and have found this thread very helpful. I have a 79 GS850G with 90000Km(56000miles). I started loosing oil around 70000Km at the rate of 1 quart every 2000 miles and more when riding loaded through Pennsylvania and the Blue Ridge. I noticed there was oil in my air box being blown from the cam cover tube that feeds it, this in turn was fouling my plugs.
I disconnected the tube to air and plugged the air box hole. This seems to have solved that problem.
The bike runs great, compression is 125 even on all four cylinders. I do notice a little whitish exhaust on startup and you can barely smell oil when riding behind me.
There is not a visible leak anywhere and the engine has never been apart other than to do shims.
I have recently purchased an 83 GS1100 and plan on taking the 850 apart this winter to check the seals and rings as you all have mentioned in your responses. This will be a first for me and am looking forward to it, espescially since I now have another bike to ride if things don't go well.
By the way I am the original owner of this 850 and would love to see it continue for another 90000K.
 
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