Wintergreen oil for revitalising rubber parts

[Guest]

I have an old set of airbox boots I decided to soak in marvel mystery oil just to see what happened. The effect, if it even had one was negligable after 24 hours. They've been in there for probably 2 months now, I just picked em up and flexed them a little when I saw this thread. Still pretty darn stiff. I wouldn't count on any drastic changes from it. My $.02 atleast. Sure does smell nice though.

The kind of oil matters.

A standard test (one of many) for solvent resistance is to measure a standard rubber item. Then put it in a solvent or oil for a specified number of hours at a specified temperature. Then measure the part again. The increse in size is called "swell." Then let the part sit in air for a specified time to see if it returns to its original size, and remeasure.

A wide variety of oils and solvents are used, depending on service conditions.

Usually, smaller molecules in the oil or solvent swell rubber more. Any type of rubber can be degraded by some solvent. The trick is to find something that swells rubber enough to soften it, without making it degrade prematurely. It seems that someone figured out that wintergreen oil works well for Suzuki GS airbox boots.

I am curious about the way that someone discovered this originally.

 

[Guest]

I've used Rubber Renue from MG Chemicals on Suzuki two-stroke parts with good results. The MSDS lists methyl salicylate, which is wintergreen oil.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/specialty-cleaners/rubber-renue-408a/

 

[SVSooke]

Hmmmmmm........can't seem to find this stuff hereWould really like to give it a try but...............

 

[jsandidge]

Drug store

Drug store

Hmmmmmm........can't seem to find this stuff hereWould really like to give it a try but...............

I got the wintergreen oil at Walgreens. It is a topical solution used to treat joint pain. They didn't stock it, but ordered it for me. Had it the next day.

 

[Guest]

Hmmmmmm........can't seem to find this stuff hereWould really like to give it a try but...............

List of distributors in British Columbia:
http://www.mgchemicals.com/distributors/canada/bc/

 

[SVSooke]

List of distributors in British Columbia:
http://www.mgchemicals.com/distributors/canada/bc/

I was trying to figure out why wintergreen oil was at a electronics place then looked at your first post in this thread.

 

[SVSooke]

Thanks to jabcb I found the Rubber Renue.Got the last bottle on the shelf at the place in Victoria.

 

[Gorminrider]

Healthfood store had it. 6$+ an ounce for the RealThing...
and, apparently BenGay Arthritis Xtra Strength has 30% methyl salicylate if you just want to massage these back to youthful flexibility....it makes sense in a way- "Arthritic" old rubber.

 

[SVSooke]

Healthfood store had it. 6$+ an ounce for the RealThing...
and, apparently BenGay Arthritis Xtra Strength has 30% methyl salicylate if you just want to massage these back to youthful flexibility....it makes sense in a way- "Arthritic" old rubber.

At less than $10 the Rubber Renue was a bargain then :lol: In my internet search I found a cheap source was to that was to be used in veterinary medicine.Used for joints on horses.Didn't peruse that avenue very far as jabcb found me the local source for the Rubber Renue.
Speaking of The Rubber Renue it works great!It actually is a mixture of methyl salicylate and xylene,pretty much the same as was mentioned in that sohc thread linked earlier.PMed jabcb to get some directions on how to use it.He said Not to just soak parts in it but brush it on them put the RR in the bottom of a bucket and put the parts something so they are above the level on the RR then let then "fume" for 24 hours.

My cab dipping set up sounded like the ideal way to do just that.Tried it jabcb way,the boots where a bit better but the 2 I needed to replcae the dead ones off my 85 750 where still to hard.So I tried a 1/2 hour soak followed by more fuming with dunks in the RR along the way.The results are I have 4 nice soft boots to put back on the 750:dancing::clap:

 

[Gorminrider]

Lovin' it! Yes ,the Rubber Renue is a good find -clean+simple.
here's a detail mentioning swelling from another forum I note here...It might be just the hot-water method that incurs swelling...?
"So I learned a few things from the softening process. I found that if you put the old hard boot into a female pipe fitting of the proper size, that the boot will get soft and still retain the original dimension. I had to soak my boots for 60 hours until they got soft,and then I put them in a bath of wintegreen for 8 hours so the wintegreen would go into the rubber as the solvent evaporated.
I was too stupid to realize that if the boot was left free to soften,and it did swell in diameter about a quarter inch oversize. By putting [actually threading] it inside a PVC 1.5" threaded fitting and placing it in 180 degree water for an hour, and then placing it in cold water,it returned to normal size."

 

[Guest]

Xylene is quickly absorbed and gives the rapid swelling. If xylene is used by itself, it will draw out what remains of the original oils and softeners in the rubber part. That will leave it in worse condition.

Xylene vapors can do the same thing, and it also applies to vapors of other organic solvents. Most solvents that would work have high vapor pressures, are highly inflammable, and have various adverse health effects. The carb dip bucket is an excellent tool for soaking, to keep the vapors confined.

The trick is to get the wintergreen oil in the part as a softener. A small amount of xylene might actually speed that process.

Organic solvents other than xylene would also work, depending on the trype of rubber.

Excellent trick, using rigid PVC to preserve the shape.

 

[Gorminrider]

"using rigid PVC to preserve the shape."...yeah! just some hoseclamps around a longitudinally-cut piece of pvc!

... other "organic" solvents? (without you advising anyone to use them) Styrene ? (wikopedia suggests tire rubber is styrene-butyl type). Acetone?
Alcohols?

Good ol' hot water to heat soften and thereby agitate the molecules as-it- were seems safest but unlikely to be a great solvent for rubber or the Oil Of Wintergreen

NOW, A really bad idea naturally occurs to me- trying this in-situ without taking the stuff off the bike! - paint 'er up with this concoction...apply the heat gun and gas myself just before the bike explodes in flame...

 

[Guest]

....... other "organic" solvents? (without you advising anyone to use them) Styrene ? (wikopedia suggests tire rubber is styrene-butyl type). Acetone? ....Alcohols? ...

NO! The chemists who designed Rubber Renue (or whatever it is called) probably chose xylene for safety as much as anything else. That is not to call xylene "safe". As an undergrad I mouth pippeted substituted benzenes, which is one way to describe xylene. Now, pretty much all of them are proven carcinogens, with lots of other nasty effects.

It seems smarter to me to avoid using such solvents at all, when possible. Styrene is particularly nasty. It is mostly used as for production of the polymers polystyrene plastics and stryene-butadiene synthetic rubber. Many controls are needed to prevent poisoning, long-term toxic effects, fires and explosions.

Methyl salicylate is relatively safe, being the active ingradient in topical muscle soreness remedies such as Ben-Gay. It can be thought of as a derivative of acetyl salicylic acid, or aspirin. Remember, however, that aspirin gives many people stomach pain and stomach bleeding, and that it can kill through poisoning.

A guess: Straight wintergreen oil probably works as well as Rubber Renue, but a slower. Adding xylene to wintergreen oil probably speeds up the process of softening rubber. People who use RR are looking for clear, quick results, so RR gives it to them. Straight wintergreen oil probably gives the same effects, taking more time in the process. It should be safer.

I should buy some wintergreen oil and experiment with it a bit, if I am going to continue to speculate about its use.

 

[SVSooke]

I'm with TM,I wasn't to impressed when I seen xylene listed on the Rubber Renue but it was the most cost effective product I could find locally.While not as safe as I would have wished for it did work.

My carbs popped into they're newly refreshed boots with less drama than usual.

 

[jsandidge]

no need

no need

No need for the xylene, wintergreen oil in hot water does the trick. Just watch it so it doesn't swell too much. I did mine weeks ago, and they are fine.

 

[Gorminrider]

jsadidge, Recipe,please ?
I have a vial of wintergreen and a couple of otherwise-useless intake boots to test with. I'm leaving one untreated as the base-line comparison.

 

[GelandeStrasse]

jsadidge, Recipe,please ?
I have a vial of wintergreen and a couple of otherwise-useless intake boots to test with. I'm leaving one untreated as the base-line comparison.

I don't know what the science is for how much to use is but I had success with an old crock pot two thirds full of water

And a the whole contents of a small bottle of this size that I got at the drugs counter in Shoppers Drugmart.

Wikipedia also has an entry for "oil of winter green" for more info.
The recipe I used: Fill the pot, turn it on low, when hot add the oil and stir then add your parts and leave. Check back in an hour and repeat until desired consistency is achieved. DO NOT forget about it or you'll end up with silly putty inlet boots like I did on my first attempt

 

[jsandidge]

recipe

recipe

jsadidge, Recipe,please ?
I have a vial of wintergreen and a couple of otherwise-useless intake boots to test with. I'm leaving one untreated as the base-line comparison.

I just used a small pot just a little bigger than the 4 airbox boots. Filled with water about 1-1/2 inches over the top of the boots. Add the entire 7 oz bottle of wintergreen oil. I used a portable electric burner out in the garage, because it puts out a pleasant but potent minty smell. Bring it up to just under boiling for about 10 minutes. I lightly clamped the boots back onto the carbs while still hot to make sure they would settle to the correct shape when they cooled, because they do swell. Use a little metal steaming grate in the bottom of the pot to keep the rubber off of it.

 

[Gorminrider]

thanks, Gelandestrasse.
...Crockpot is a good idea-they've a controlled temperature. A visit to the Thrift store is in my future!
"Shoppers Drugmart",eh? -I'll have a look there too for Wintergreen source. Rexall,Walmart,London Drugs had none-around here anyways.

 

[GelandeStrasse]

thanks, Gelandestrasse.
...Crockpot is a good idea-they've a controlled temperature. A visit to the Thrift store is in my future!
"Shoppers Drugmart",eh? -I'll have a look there too for Wintergreen source. Rexall,Walmart,London Drugs had none-around here anyways.

I did have to ask at the counter, it wasn't on the shelf eh