XS1100 charging problem

[old_chopper]

Not a Suzuki but I stll need help from the experts. The field coils check to spec and the stator tests good too. Zero output. Check commutator to commutator as in this picture shows continuity. I think this is bad. Also shows continuity from commutator to chassis.

 

[old_chopper]

This also shows continuity, no resistance.

 

[old_chopper]

This test shows .3 ohms correct to spec.

 

[old_chopper]

This does not show continuity

 

[posplayr]

Not a Suzuki but I stll need help from the experts. The field coils check to spec and the stator tests good too. Zero output. Check commutator to commutator as in this picture shows continuity. I think this is bad. Also shows continuity from commutator to chassis.

Those are not comutators like you would have on a starter. Those are just the poles of the stator and there is no current flow through them. They also munt to the cover so you will see continuity to the cover as well Macht Nix.

You have to make sure that the wires at the plug do not conenct to ground and that there is about 0.5 ohms between the windings (how many contacts in the plug 2 or 3?)

 

[posplayr]

This also shows continuity, no resistance.

This is supposed to be that way

 

[posplayr]

This test shows .3 ohms correct to spec.

OK good but check to ground?

 

[posplayr]

This does not show continuity

OK so staror checks, except the real test is how much voltage when you run at about 2-3K RPM (Harley right)?

 

[old_chopper]

Yamahopper, XS1100. Did I answer all your questions with the pictures? The output leads do not connect to ground and show .4 ohms. Zero output. Should the rotor on the crank be magnetic?

 

[posplayr]

Yamahopper, XS1100. Did I answer all your questions with the pictures? The output leads do not connect to ground and show .4 ohms. Zero output. Should the rotor on the crank be magnetic?

Yes but the real test is to leave the stator disconnected and run the motor while you measure how much voltage it puts out.

Typical GS is 70-80 volts AC at 5K RPM

 

[old_chopper]

I had zero output with that test. The bike set outside for 14 years and when I took the stator off there was water in the sleeve the wires were in. Shouldn't short out but I'm letting it dry and will try that test again tomorrow. Should I be checking two output leads at a time (one positive lead one negative lead) for that test. I know it's still AC output.

 

[posplayr]

I had zero output with that test. The bike set outside for 14 years and when I took the stator off there was water in the sleeve the wires were in. Shouldn't short out but I'm letting it dry and will try that test again tomorrow. Should I be checking two output leads at a time (one positive lead one negative lead) for that test. I know it's still AC output.

set meter to AC and measure between any two stator leads while the engine is running. How many contacts in the connector?


If it is two then it is single phase.

If it is 3 then 3 phase.

 

[old_chopper]

Actually four but three are same color (yellow) and one is white. I need to check to ensure I have 12 volts going to the coil to magnetize it. Also read I can hook the ground from the regulator to ground to get max output. I'll update the results tomorrow, thanks for your help!

 

[Graham]

With the key on (motor off) check for battery power going to the (center) field coil of your stator (if none check reg., fuse or battery).

Next, with stator together and bolted in place, plugged in. Turn key on and use a thin steal feeler gauge, steal paper clip and see if they try to stick to the case by the (center) field coil (magnetized). If they do (even the sliest bit) the center coil is good.

Now start the motor with stator (out side coils) unplugged and the field (center) coil plugged in. Check voltage from wire to wire going to the stator (20 to 80 volt AC is fine). Any voltage from stator wires to ground (case) is bad get new stator.

If all test are good replace rec./reg.
EDIT; This is the way we test them here in the shop. But someone just pointed out about following the manual, you could do that too.

 

[posplayr]

With the key on (motor off) check for battery power going to the (center) field coil of your stator (if none check reg., fuse or battery).

Next, with stator together and bolted in place, plugged in. Turn key on and use a thin steal feeler gauge, steal paper clip and see if they try to stick to the case by the (center) field coil (magnetized). If they do (even the sliest bit) the center coil is good.

Now start the motor with stator (out side coils) unplugged and the field (center) coil plugged in. Check voltage from wire to wire going to the stator (20 to 80 volt AC is fine). Any voltage from stator wires to ground (case) is bad get new stator.

If all test are good replace rec./reg.
EDIT; This is the way we test them here in the shop. But someone just pointed out about following the manual, you could do that too.

So is this an alternator or a PM generator like a GS? I'm confused?

 

[Graham]

So is this an alternator or a PM generator like a GS? I'm confused?

Alternator. you can see it in the pictures. Yamaha-ha-ha-ha trained by Lucas in the electric arts.

 

[old_chopper]

I checked last night and the field coil is not getting 12V. I'll look into this tonight to see why. Currently there is just 1 main fuse and it's not bad. I'm certain the regulator is hooked up to the battery on the positive side. Thanks for all the replies so far! I'll update when I have more info.

 

[Matchless]

If the field coil is not getting 12V the regulator is probably the culprit or any connections to or on it. If you have brushes on the rotor, check those, if they are OK you can briefly power the rotor directly from the battery via a fuse and see if it starts charging. Some field regulated alternators receive the excitation voltage via the charge lamp on the dash if there is one and will not work if the bulb is blown.
Do the feeler gauge test with the battery directly connected via a fuse to the rotor without the motor running.

Hope this helps.

 

[old_chopper]

If the field coil is not getting 12V the regulator is probably the culprit or any connections to or on it. If you have brushes on the rotor, check those, if they are OK you can briefly power the rotor directly from the battery via a fuse and see if it starts charging. Some field regulated alternators receive the excitation voltage via the charge lamp on the dash if there is one and will not work if the bulb is blown.
Do the feeler gauge test with the battery directly connected via a fuse to the rotor without the motor running.

Hope this helps.

I just set down to ask this very question, can I temporarily supply the 12v diretly from the battery to see if I get my AC output. Thanks way in advance for the answer.
There are no bulbs on the bike, I have stripped nearly everything to start from scratch. It set outside for 17 years and most parts were shot. Amazingly the motor sounds pretty solid, just a slight smoke that might clear up with some hard riding.

 

[Matchless]

Usually the rotor windings can handle the full 12V, that then means that getting full +12V will enable the alternator to give out maximum voltage. The regulator will usually vary that voltage down to keep the voltage over the battery steady at say 13.8V. You may find with a full 12V on the rotor that the alternater could put out 16 or more volts.
I assume that the ground for the one side of the rotor winding is most likely wired in permanently.

Disconnect the regulating positive wire to the rotor and connect a piece of wire via a 10 A fuse that would reach the pos terminal of the battery. Touch it briefly with the bike not running and check if a feeler gauge close to it is magnetically attracted. If so then the rotor may be in order. If not check out the rotor, it should also have a very low resistance of a few ohms (manual will give it).

If the rotor checks out OK statically, then put a voltmeter across your battery, make sure lights are disconnected, as you do not want to blow them. Start the bike, watch the voltmeter and briefly touch the wire from the rotor to the battery positive terminal and push up the RPM's a bit. Voltage should jump to more than 14 V maybe even 16V or higher. This is applicable assuming the rectifiers are still good.

That then proves your regulator is shot or not properly terminated. You most probably know that an internal regulator for some car alternators can be made to work. I do not have the exact details, but there are some ways to be found on Google. The BMW riders have lots of threads on that.

PS As Graham said earlier, energize the rotor and measure the AC output with the stator unplugged. If your AC is present the stator is good

Good luck