1150 clutch will NOT, fully engage

[Carter Turk]

I've been battling with my clutch for some time now. Just about everything has been replaced: fibers (EBC)/steel (Barnett), springs (HD Barnett) inner clutch hub (Cope) , swapped baskets from wife's bike 14,000 miles, replaced large roller bearing, have Ape clutch nut, replaced rack release and roller bearing, lightly filed dents from plate tangs on clutch basket, all in an effort to eliminate grabby, wavy, take offs from a standing start to no avail. Nice run on sentence.

I'll pull up to a stop light blip the throttle clutch/downshift and right before I roll to a stop I'll pull in the clutch again and press on the shift lever with my foot to ease it into first gear, barely moving. Then I come to a stop and the bike is creeping forward. I can feel the clutch pulsating through the lever.

I haven't replaced the cable lately because I am still in the middle or less realm of the adjusters on each end of the cable. I've tryed moving the clutch arm (on the clutch cover) to different teeth and am currently flush with the cover or slightly in about 6:30 on the clock. I've taken the slop out of the lever perch (which was worn through brass ring on one side) with a beer can shim. Zero slop between bolt/ lever/perch interface.

I've adjusted the arm so there's a mm or two of play there and whatever they specify in the manual at the lever, but when I go the pull away from a stop the clutch disengages right at the bar.

I had a technical minded friend measure plate thickness, number of plates, spring free length with calipers. He also measured the shim washer behind the clutch basket with a feeler gauge. Everything was in the specified limits of the manual. One clutch spring was lower than the other 5 but still within the service limit.

I've posted recently about clutch spring bolts stretching and those have been replaced as well. Also the anti snatch two piece shim behind the piano wire steel plate is mounted correctly, but I noticed in a non factory manual, the mechinism was changed. When shifting from 2nd through fifth its totally fine smooth and positive with no slippage. I've run these aftermarket parts in the past with excellent results. The motor is from an 84 1150ES. Thanks for any thoughts or theories, Carter

 

[cbxchris]

The condition you describe is probably one of three things. Your steel plates are warped, get rid of the aftermarket fibers(drag raced for to many years to count with ultra HP engines....get stockers), and have you checked the stack hieght of your clutch pack?

 

[cbxchris]

I also forgot to ask...are you positive that you have a 1150 hub...there is a slight difference.

 

[gsbill]

the 1100 and 1150 hubs inter change..I didnt know there was a difference...We broke a few hubs and just ordered up 1100 hubs for our 1150

 

[cbxchris]

Bill is there not a clutch pack difference? I have to admit I was told that by a knowledgable sorce. I always ran 1100 bottom ends and 1150 heads after the 1150 came out. I didn`t like the 20mm pins in the rods plus more of a piston selection. Also the clutch cover is slightly different. I know the cases have a bolt or two different.

 

[Carter Turk]

1150 clutch not fully engaged

1150 clutch not fully engaged

cbx Chris,

As far as I know, the basket/hub is out of my wifes 1150 which had 9000 miles on it when I bought it. So I'm assuming it is stock 1150. On my older 80 1100 ET that I sold to a friend, I don't recall there being a shim behind the clutch hub in which case this clutch does have one.

As far as the steels they're brand new a week ago. I have some used stock fibers kicking around I believe, but what could be so different as to make a difference. Please explain.

If the fibers and steels were measured individually wouldn't the stack height be the same or are you saying that a thou or two would add up enough to create a problem?

My wife's bike has my modified falicon hub in it but I changed to her stocker because the dents from the plate tangs were much worse, however, her bike shifts and holds steady at a stop. Also leaving from a stop its super smooth. One more thing, is there any way to tell a stock fiber from an aftermarket after its soaked in oil? Thanks for the replies, Carter

 

[cbxchris]

Why don`t you do this. Put her complete clutch in yours. Fibers and all. On the fiber deal I can`t answer that I found out early on the barnetts/ape fibers dragged real bad hot so I got rid of them. Your stack hieght means a great deal. Yes a few thousandths will make a great deal of difference. What kind of springs are you using? Stock? I assume you have checked for coil bind. Just throwing some things out there for ya. I really do think there is a minor difference in the 1100/1150 hub. I do think they are interchangable as bill mentioned but there may be enough difference to cause the drag you experience.

 

[Carter Turk]

1150 clutch not fully engaged

1150 clutch not fully engaged

Chris,

How do you check for coil bind? I have EBC fibers. The springs are HD Barnetts. About the stack what is the desired height.

I'll consider getting motivated and swapping clutches to see if there's improvement although her stock clutch slips when you ask for a lot of revs.

Fibers sound like the culprit. Maybe they swell too much with heat from the 1229.

At one time, actually before I got talked into the big bore kit, this clutch set up used to be bearable, never perfect, but now its just a drag. Thanks again for the replies, Carter

 

[Anonymous]

in your side cover that holds the clutch lever for pushing the pin into the case does your lever have any slop where the factory crimped the system together. if it does you will either need to replace this or weld it back in place. mine is welded and works great. it used to have the same exact problem you described.

 

[Dink]

The rack that passes through the cover that holds the whole lot together is my guess, have you even considered the condition of the bearing that is in there? there is a circlip on the outside of this cover the rack assembly will then come out so you can check the flat needle rolller bearing that lives in there.
Dink

 

[gsbill]

CBX,

Our hubs had the inner side milled flat, we ran extra steel, plus we usually ran a lock up, so I may have never encountered the problems with a stock to stock swap. I do know that our springs almost always rated different when tested at a given stack height. We wanted the easist clutch lever pull, without slipping, hence the lock up. I think the best thing as maybe previously stated is, for general street riding, leave ya clutch alone..It will last for damn near ever w/o any up keep.

Another thing to note..on the back side of those baskets, it is possible to aasemble it and miss the oil pump drive cutout. This will result in a simulated tall stack height which could result in drag. You wont notice the difference because the shear force of tightening the big nut will hold it all together.

I have done this in haste and I know of other experienced people who have also. Its embarrassing to admit. For us we found out quick. broke the hub in 2 right out at about 100 feet. Worth checking!

 

[cbxchris]

I`ve removed those small needles from the side covers before.(getting covers chromed) I think the easiest thing to do is take out her complete clutch set up cover and all. Then if that works start backwards changing stuff....surely you can fugure it out like that. Just takes a good evening of your time and some gaskets.

 

[cbxchris]

You need a spring compressor to check your springs. Basically all you`re doing is finding out how long the spring is when completely compressed. Most anything(valves,clutch springs) do not respond well to being fully compressed. I doubt thats your problem but its a shot in the dark.

 

[Carter Turk]

1150 clutch not fully engaging

1150 clutch not fully engaging

Hey thanks for the insights.

Dink, I've replaced the the rack release and needle bearing under the E-Clip. After that change alone it felt exactly the same as before. I think I will try CBX's idea, swapping entire clutch and cover and see what happens. I'm worried about the slipping clutch on her bike. Should I run the HD springs and maybe use different fibers or steels?

GSBill, my intention wasn't to modify the clutch with aftermarket goodies, I just started out with a slipping clutch way back when and in the past had no problems when replacing with aftermarket plates.

I noticed that the tiny spring between the engine side of the adjustment on the cable and the arm on the clutch cover, doesn't push the arm out completely after releasing the clutch lever. I can reach down and push the arm out a little bit more. I hope this clutch problem can be solved as its bumming me out. Carter

 

[cbxchris]

Let us know what you find. It will be interesting to see what you find. Good luck I know I`ve not been much help to you.