1981 GS450E Rebuild

[Macguyver]

I'm also thinking of saving toilet and paper towel rolls so that once the engine's together I can mock up an exhaust how I want it, should help with making it.

That my friend, is sheer genius!

You might get some odd looks when you take the whole carbdoard exhaust mock up into the exhaust shop though.

 

[Guest]

Just seemed sorta obvious to me Mac, dunno if I'd call it genius

I figured they're round, easily cut, easily taped together... if only they'd withstand the heat!

I'd prefer if I could actually make it myself, apparently there's places around that sell pre-bent piping, so theoretically I could cut it and weld it.

My lack of experience with welding and the lack of a welder will have some impact on that theory though

My guess is your prediction will be true... funny looks at an exhaust shop...

 

[Flaming Chainsaws]

This is looking good But what do you have planned for the shocks? So far, that's like the only thing that's still rusty.

Keep it up. Can't wait to see it all back together.

 

[Guest]

Cheers FC.

The rear shocks need to be either replaced or reconditioned. There's a couple of places here in Brissie that are supposed to be able to recondition shocks for a good price, but I haven't spoken to them yet.

The alternative I'm thinking of is some Progressive shocks, although Progressive fork springs will probably be a higher priority as I remember the forks being too soft when I last rode it (almost 10 years ago), and now that I've put them back together, they definitely feel soft.

I'm leaving things like the shocks until the end because it's very easy to take them off and on without dismantling things, so I'm concentrating at the moment on all the big things like frame paint, engine paint, etc. that stop me putting it back together.

Once I'm done with the big stuff, I can worry about the little stuff and get it ready to register.

I also need the engine done and back in so I can start working out what to do about the exhaust.

 

[Macguyver]

Just seemed sorta obvious to me Mac, dunno if I'd call it genius

I figured they're round, easily cut, easily taped together... if only they'd withstand the heat!

I'd prefer if I could actually make it myself, apparently there's places around that sell pre-bent piping, so theoretically I could cut it and weld it.

My lack of experience with welding and the lack of a welder will have some impact on that theory though

My guess is your prediction will be true... funny looks at an exhaust shop...

If you buy the pre-bent pieces, you can use some aluminum tape to temporarily hold the pieces together until you can beg, borrow, steal, or bribe someone with a welder to some over and tack it all together to get it ready for finish welding.

If you can get someone to at least tack it together for you, then it would be easy to remove it from the bike then have it finish welded. I would just make sure that it is all tacked together on the bike, to make sure that the finished piece will still fit properly when finished.

Keep the bevy's and the ideas flowing there Pete!

 

[Guest]

Good call Mac, didn't even think of that, just figured I'd make a template of pieces from the tubes then somehow get it replicated.

But taping the bits together on the bike is a much much better idea.

Can the aluminium tape just be welded over in place?

It'll be a 2 into 1, so I'd like to make the 1 bit slip onto the 2 bit joiner so if I need to do maintenance on things I don't need to take the whole thing off. Just reread that sentence and it sounds weird, but hope you get the idea...

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately the weather turned against me today, or at least it was supposed to, so I didn't get the engine bits BBQ'd. Expecting rain so didn't even try, bugger.

Anyways, my brain did some work instead while I was cleaning the house, and I think I may not need to find a replacement seat pan for the look I'm going after.

I was thinking that if the duck tail had a subframe that held the locking mechanism for the seat, then I could potentially ditch the plastic and keep the subframe and make a new, much smaller, housing for it.

So ducked down tonight and grabbed the duck tail...



Flipped it over, and yay! Much smaller subframe hiding under there:



And the grab rail attaches directly to the subframe through the plastic housing, so I can keep it also:



So, duck tail dismantled, need to do some more painting now of the subframe and grab rail, maybe the locking mechanism too:





Then I grabbed the seat out and popped it on as is:



I won't be needing those plastic side skirts for what I want.

 

[Guest]

So I flipped it over and took them off, and ugh, got some rust to take care of!



Fortunately it needs reupholstering anyway as I want to return it to a two seater and the foam that's under there currently is too soft and after about 30 - 45 minutes on the seat, you're basically sitting on the seat pan which is not exactly comfortable.

Anyway, popped the duck tail subframe on with the seat for a bit of a mock up, and I think if I make the housing right, it should look good.



I wanted to get a few more angles and close ups, but the camera has decided the batteries are low yet again, so not sure if the batteries I have are dodgy or if the camera's packing up, but it makes it real hard to get more pic's!

The big question is do I make the housing out of fibreglass or do I get some ice cream containers and attempt to use them instead? That would be more flexible but far less durable, but I do have heaps more of the plastic paint I used on the chain guard to hopefully UV protect it.

Also, it does look like there would be just enough room under that subframe to move the battery... wasn't even planning on that but could be an unexpected bonus

I should also be able to put a LED brake/tail light in there which allows me to be more flexible when trying to find an alternative rear mudguard.

And as far as that goes, I had another idea... would it be too modern to put a rear guard on attached to the swingarm like the new BMW GS' have? I'm not sure if it will suit the look of the bike or not, but may allow me to leave the rear end with just the seat, housing over the duck tail subrame, and the number plate.

Something along the lines of this:

 

[scottychop]

Looking good!

Looking good!

I like the idea of fabbing up a new rear end. what about just a plain flat ribbed seat back there, with no cowl? That would look pretty sweet with your bike. Are you going to hide stuff back there?

Scott

 

[Guest]

I like the idea of fabbing up a new rear end. what about just a plain flat ribbed seat back there, with no cowl? That would look pretty sweet with your bike. Are you going to hide stuff back there?

Scott

That was the original plan:



I initially thought something like a T or L seat pan would be perfect after getting it reupholstered to remove the step, but then I realised that I'd never seen one in Aus before and on close inspection, the T and L frames appear to be a few inches shorter at the rear, so even if I was able to get a seat pan, it'd still be too short.

One thing I'm trying to avoid also is the need to cut the frame, I want to leave it stock if I can.

So, I figure instead of hunting for something to fit, I could try to make a small cowling (thanks, I couldn't think of that word last night) that blended in with the back of the seat. Should still give the same overall look/impression, but hopefully now can help me relocate the battery back there.

I need to do a photoshop of it, I have the GIMP somewhere around that I need to reinstall, then I can hopefully show a clearer idea of what I'm thinking.

Should also be able to do a mock up of what I'm thinking with the BMW GS style guard also... isn't it nice that BMW use the GS moniker so I can steal their idea but still say it's from a GS?

 

[Guest]

Ok, having no success on that decision yet... camera continually playing up, so I'll have to go and find some different batteries I think, hopefully it's just that the Everready's aren't keeping up with it.

On looking again last night, my concern at the moment is that the duck tail subframe with the grab rail will be almost as tall as the rear of the tank, which might look a little odd for a scrambler style.

However, maybe if I was to put a round retro style brake light on the rear of the cowling it might take a way from that and look ok.

I really need to do get some more close up pic's and get The GIMP working to see how it will look. I really wish I could turn my imagination into reality a bit better...

 

[Macguyver]

Hey Pete, it sounds like you are having tons 'o fun being creative there.

If you use the aluminum tape to hold the exhaust pipe together, it can't really be welded through nicely. It will burn and be a bit messy. You could use some pipe clamps to hold the pieces together and tack weld through some holes drilled in the clamp. Just make sure you don't weld the clamp onto the pipe. Don't ask how I learned that lesson!

One idea for making your new rear cowling is to make a version of it out of the plastic ice cream containers, but make it about 5% smaller in overall dimensions than you need. Make sure it still bolts up and everything, just make it a little more trim than you want, then cover it in fiberglass and resin.

The fiberglass shouldn't stick to the plastic container material, so it can be removed later. Voila! You would then have your rear cowling in fiberglass! Then it's just a matter of sanding it smooth, priming, and painting.

There are tons of tutorials for fiberglass work on youtube and the like if you are looking for a how-to if you haven't used fiberglass and resin before.

It is very much like making paper mache in primary school, except much more permanent of course.

If you practice a bit, you should be able to cut up the containers and then melt them back together with a soldering iron, or my preference, a woodburning tool with the little scraper looking end on it. Just slide the end along in the seams while holding the pieces together to join them. It's not a durable joint, just good enough with a little tape backing to last long enough to make a fiberglass part off of it.

Keep posting your progress, we are all riveted.

 

[Guest]

See you've always got good ideas Mac, knew I could count on you

Good call with the clamp. A while a way with the exhaust, but I've now started the toilet roll and paper towel roll collection so should have enough by the time I get there, and now I know how I can hold some pre-bent pipe together, nice.

And brilliant idea with the ice cream container.

I was thinking fibreglass would be the way to go for the cowling, and I was thinking a fly screen and new side covers also; all would benefit from fibreglass rather than cheap flexible plastic.

I've done one thing with fibreglass when I was a young teen, made a serving tray or something which I barely remember and have no idea what became of it, but I'll have to work it out again as that was over 20 years ago now.

One thing though, how does fibreglass handle heat? The reason for new side covers is the high scrambler pipe I want, which will end up quite close to the right hand side cover and I don't want to melt it. I'm possibly going to exhaust wrap the pipe along the side there where the rider and pillion legs are, but I expect it will still get rather warm...

 

[davidduarte]

no judgement, but why do you want to relocate the battery (other than that it's a PITA to get to where it's at now)? The bike is a bit rear heavy to begin with (although I imagine that is less so with the rider on it).

 

[Macguyver]

Fiberglass is fine with heat as long as there is some airspace between it and the heat source.

If you look at all of the sweet as heck lower fairings or rear cowls on modern sportbikes that only have a small opening for the exhaust pipe to stick out of, you are looking at fiberglass parts.

The only thing you really need to worry about is the air gap between said parts and the hot pipes, as long as there is even a small 1/8" gap, you will be fine as long as the resin is mixed properly and fully cured with no air bubbles in the mesh.

I have made a fair few parts from fiberglass and resin, and the only one I had burn on me didn't stand a chance since the rest of the car was on fire too. (Insert short story about foolish people playing around with ether in their carburetor, here.)

If the parts are really close to the heat source, you could paint them with high temp paint, but most paint is rated for 250 degrees, so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Guest]

David... main reason is that if I get to do my high set exhaust like I want, the battery comes out the right side, so will be a right PITA with the exhaust on that side, so up behind the seat would be soooo much better. I should be able to get a nice new modern maintenance free small one too so hopefully it will weight a bit less.

I also want to try to use that whole area where the airbox and battery is for a secure storage compartment.

Mac... that makes perfect sense. My imagination says there should be something like an inch gap between the pipe and side cover, whereas with the stock cover, they stick out almost an inch from the frame, so I suspect to get the exhaust tucked in enough to not have my leg resting on it, it will pretty much be in contact with the side cover and I expect that to start melting.

I had a quick Google this morning and looks like I shouldn't have too much trouble as it looks like the difficult bit (for me anyway) will be getting the resin on quick enough.

I also think I might look around for some foam to model the cowling on as getting the plastic in the right shape to start with will probably require some ingenuity... I think the foam will be much easier for the shape I think I want.

I also picked up some Duracell batteries today, will give them a go in the camera and see if I can't get some more good pic's to start some photoshopping... and I'm hanging for Saturday to get the motor BBQ'd and start cleaning up the crankshaft and transmission etc. ready to start putting it back together.

 

[Guest]

Popped the Duracells in the camera tonight and I can take pic's again, yay... or so far anyway I can take more than about 2 in a row without waiting 5 minutes. Sheeesh.

Anyways, I got some different angles and close ups tonight so I can start to fiddle with it in the GIMP. I popped the fuel tank on to get a better idea.

So this is the subframe from the duck tail:



And some side shots I'll try to work with in the GIIMP:



I still think the rear's going to be too high, especially with the grab rail on there, but just wait and see I guess.

Admittedly it's on the centre stand in these pic's, so the rear is slightly higher than it will end up.

And finally one random view from the front:



I now have to go redo some work that took me three full days before 10:30 Friday (and losing 3 hours to meetings tomorrow), so I'm guessing I won't get any GIMP'ing done (does that sound bad or what??!!) until at least Friday night, and probably not until after I get stuck into it again on Saturday.

 

[Macguyver]

I also think I might look around for some foam to model the cowling on as getting the plastic in the right shape to start with will probably require some ingenuity... I think the foam will be much easier for the shape I think I want.

Sounds like a plan Pete,

Just make sure before you coat your nice, newly shaped foam with resin, that you cover it with something else first to protect it from the resin. Some resins will eat foam like it's a $2.99 all-you-can-eat shrimp buffet.

I usually cover foam molds/plugs with masking tape, then a thin layer of mold release (50:50 white glue or dish soap : water). It's never fun when your foam which has had hours of shaping done to it disappears before your very eyes when it gets some resin on it!

For the battery, I used a 4L-BS AGM. Super small, with high capacity. If it will crank my 650 over well, it should have your 450 just a hoppin! The only drawback I have noticed is that if the bike requires some serious extended cranking, the battery will get weakened fairly fast. Properly set up valve clearances and carbs are a must when using small batteries!

Looking Good Pete! Keep up the great work!

 

[Guest]

Yeah that's cool. The various results on Google I found for using foam said to guarantee you protect it with something, and I've seen some posts around here with the same advice, so definitely plan on protecting it for sure.

Cheers on the battery tip too, I do recall one time where I hadn't gotten around to checking the spark plugs yet after I'd just gotten it on the road many years ago... 12 hour shift driving a taxi, flat battery, 4am push starting, and (as it turns out), about a 2mm gap on the spark plugs! No idea how that ran...

 

[Macguyver]

No idea how that ran...

I am guessing very poorly.

What kind of foam are you thinking of using? I usually use the blue wall insulation foam board. It's easy to cut, holds edges nicely, can be laminated together with some glue to make thick chunks, and sands well with either hand sanding, or powered sanders. (Just don't press too hard with a powered sander!)

The only drawback is that it is not very cheap. Up here in the Great White North it usually goes for around $20 for a 4x8 foot sheet.

A lot of people use whatever cast off styrofoam they can find too. Most appliance stores usually have a pile of it somewhere, and most of the time will gladly let you grab what you need for free.

I hear you on the push starting, I accidentally left the key on when I rode down to give my landlord rent, and the headlights drained the battery pretty quick, maybe 10 minutes. There were no hills to go down, only a gravel driveway and gravel road. Ug! Bikes are awkward to get up to speed on gravel. Thankfully after only two attempts, popped the clutch in 2nd, and she fired right up.