L
Leigh
Guest
Say hello to a new system..
Stupid unrepairable crap.
-
Required reading for all forum users!!!
Welcome!
Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.A note to new registrants...
All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.A Special Note about Email accounts!
DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.A note to old forum members...
I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.
Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...
-
Returning Visitors
If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.
If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.
Stupid unrepairable crap.
G
Guest
Guest
Well, Jeez, that makes i tso much better then. Only 6 years? What have we been getting worked up over?
Bloody hell, Pete, I get narky if I miss a weekend.
I'm now at 10-an-a-bit months.
I've been known to be unpleasant company in that time..
Hold on a sec, I believe a certain someone was leant a certain form of transportation to attend a certain event at a certain island... so quit ya whingin'
Yeah I expect it'll be new system time... got an old Rheem there now, probably end up with some hoo-flung-dung sealed up thing that you can't even light the pilot light on without spending $1000 to call a plumber in... and he'll have to be a contortionist jockey so he can crawl inside and wind his arm around it three times to light the damn thing...
G
Guest
Guest
Well, just over $200 and the relief valve on the water system has been replaced. However, the anode that is sacrificed in order to prevent rust in the tank has already been sacrificed... and then some, so he's not sure how long before the tank needs replacing. Wonderful. Another $1500 if it has to be done.
Anyways... I'm starting to remember why I didn't persevere with a career in electronics now.
Disconnected everything from the wiring harness tonight.
Grabbed my A4 printout of the wiring diagram (I use an A3 sized one for reference to make it readable):
And proceeded to plug things in one by one, measuring and measuring again while I did it to see if I could isolate what's causing the voltage drop.
If you look at that diagram, you'll see how tedious that was.
End result was if I plugged the right coil in, I'd lose about 1.5 volts, so that seemed to be the culprit.
However, I went to double check, and that behaviour moved across to the left coil, so the right coil was measuring fine, but the left coil was causing the 1.5 volt drop.
That confuses me completely, but also is leading me to believe I need to give the igniter a thorough test. The ignitor is where the other leg of the coils plug into, so it's quite possible it's the igniter causing the drop, and that could explain why the behaviour has moved between the coils.
Unfortunately i just realised I didn't test with the coils plugged in and igniter unplugged, so I will have to try that as it may narrow it down.
Hopefully my old college project still works and I can do some proper testing of the igniter.
Anyways... I'm starting to remember why I didn't persevere with a career in electronics now.
Disconnected everything from the wiring harness tonight.
Grabbed my A4 printout of the wiring diagram (I use an A3 sized one for reference to make it readable):
And proceeded to plug things in one by one, measuring and measuring again while I did it to see if I could isolate what's causing the voltage drop.
If you look at that diagram, you'll see how tedious that was.
End result was if I plugged the right coil in, I'd lose about 1.5 volts, so that seemed to be the culprit.
However, I went to double check, and that behaviour moved across to the left coil, so the right coil was measuring fine, but the left coil was causing the 1.5 volt drop.
That confuses me completely, but also is leading me to believe I need to give the igniter a thorough test. The ignitor is where the other leg of the coils plug into, so it's quite possible it's the igniter causing the drop, and that could explain why the behaviour has moved between the coils.
Unfortunately i just realised I didn't test with the coils plugged in and igniter unplugged, so I will have to try that as it may narrow it down.
Hopefully my old college project still works and I can do some proper testing of the igniter.
L
Leigh
Guest
Well, yeah ok, there was that..Hold on a sec, I believe a certain someone was leant a certain form of transportation to attend a certain event at a certain island... so quit ya whingin'
Looks like the weather is going to be too hot/cold/wet/dry to do the back yard so I better spend the weekend in the shed..
G
Guest
Guest
I'd say that's a grand idea!
Unfortunately I have to go sofa shopping today... that'll be a fun trip.
And I've had a glorious 4 hours of sleep... gotta love on call sometimes.
G
Guest
Guest
I actually have a 1982 Suzuki GS450EZ
I actually have a 1982 Suzuki GS450EZ
So I finally figured out half my problems with weird coloured wiring in the harness. My bike's actually an '82, not an '81.
My first suspicion of this was partly confirmed by the gasket guy saying the change from the 12 bolt valve cover to the 15 bolt valve cover was in the '82 model year, not the '81 model year, so the Suzuki fiche is a little misleading in that regard.
His listing from Athena is "80 - 83" 12 bolt and then "82 - 83" 15 bolt, although his listing on the website is a little confusing. Having said that, he and I were both quite confused about it... thanks Suzuki
Anyway, I got my final confirmation it's an '82 this morning while looking through the wiring diagrams again.
The '81 diagram shows a yellow/white wire coming out from the kill switch, which was confusing for me last night because I had no yellow/white from there, but the orange/white tested like that was it.
A closer look this morning in the Clymer shows the '82 model has an orange/white there instead of a yellow/white.
So, wiring confusion solved, I have a 1982 Suzuki GS450EZ.
I also noticed last night that something funny's going on with the rect/reg wiring and it doesn't match the '81 or '82 diagram. A closer inspection shows the connector is much newer than the other connectors, so obviously when the rect/reg has been replaced, it's had some alternative wiring done as well which I will need to work out.
I actually have a 1982 Suzuki GS450EZ
So I finally figured out half my problems with weird coloured wiring in the harness. My bike's actually an '82, not an '81.
My first suspicion of this was partly confirmed by the gasket guy saying the change from the 12 bolt valve cover to the 15 bolt valve cover was in the '82 model year, not the '81 model year, so the Suzuki fiche is a little misleading in that regard.
His listing from Athena is "80 - 83" 12 bolt and then "82 - 83" 15 bolt, although his listing on the website is a little confusing. Having said that, he and I were both quite confused about it... thanks Suzuki
Anyway, I got my final confirmation it's an '82 this morning while looking through the wiring diagrams again.
The '81 diagram shows a yellow/white wire coming out from the kill switch, which was confusing for me last night because I had no yellow/white from there, but the orange/white tested like that was it.
A closer look this morning in the Clymer shows the '82 model has an orange/white there instead of a yellow/white.
So, wiring confusion solved, I have a 1982 Suzuki GS450EZ.
I also noticed last night that something funny's going on with the rect/reg wiring and it doesn't match the '81 or '82 diagram. A closer inspection shows the connector is much newer than the other connectors, so obviously when the rect/reg has been replaced, it's had some alternative wiring done as well which I will need to work out.
L
Leigh
Guest
Four hours? That's about the same as me... gotta love drinking irresponsibly to all hours of the night sometimes.
Sofa shopping.. You are such a manly man, Pete.
I can hear the crack of the whip from here
G
Guest
Guest
Four hours? That's about the same as me... gotta love drinking irresponsibly to all hours of the night sometimes.
Sofa shopping.. You are such a manly man, Pete.
I can hear the crack of the whip from here
Mate if only my four hours was from something enjoyable! Sheeesh... and the phone keeps ringing this morning... never ends sometimes...
As for the sofa shopping... this time it's actually a manufacturing fault but our sofas are discontinued so we need to find replacement ones, and they were all purchased in my name... can't get out of that one
PS: I won't deny there may be some whip cracking involved...
F
Flaming Chainsaws
Guest
Change your sig Pete . But... You could have just checked the steering neck for the year.
Electrical scares the **** out of me, that's for sure. Hoping you get it solved!
. But... You could have just checked the steering neck for the year.Electrical scares the **** out of me, that's for sure. Hoping you get it solved!
G
Guest
Guest
Change your sig Pete
Electrical scares the **** out of me, that's for sure. Hoping you get it solved!
Ooops, forgot to update the sig., thanks!
As for the neck... don't work for Aussie models. There's no E, S, X, Z etc., just the 450.
The only way I know it's an E is because the wheels aren't gold and the bikini fairing that was on it initially is aftermarket.
The only indication to year is manufacturing date which from memory is 10/81, so no help as to official model year...
S
SVSooke
Guest
10/81 is almost definatly a 82.My wifes is 10/85,there's a G in the VIN.Sure it's a 86 model year.Here the 82's had this bodywork
In Canada,US to as far as I know.
Very intresting.
In Canada,US to as far as I know.
Very intresting.
G
Guest
Guest
Interesting... I'll have to have a closer look at the VIN next time I'm in the garage.
As for that '82 body work, well I thought that was like '83 or later... damn out of sync model years! Confusing...
As for that '82 body work, well I thought that was like '83 or later... damn out of sync model years! Confusing...
G
Guest
Guest
Had a closer look at the compliance plate tonight, and definitely no way to tell from that what exact model it is.
It says manufactured 10/81 by Suzuki, it's a GS450, and the VIN is GS450-520025. That's it. No E or S or anything helpful like that.
Anyways... I put it on the car battery again tonight, and this time left the coils plugged in and disconnected the igniter. There's the answer, coils are fine with 12.6 volts, plug the igniter in, and down they go to 10.6 volts again.
I disconnected the igniter again and flicked both coils to ground and got what looked like a nice spark, so the coils are functioning just fine and dandy by the looks.
I'm now convinced I have a faulty igniter... yay.
I did replace the left spark plug cap tonight, so both are new NGK's:
I then took some closer up shots of the R/R connector to try to determine what's changed with it from OEM:
It looks to me like they've wired the stator directly to the R/R without going via the headlight switch, which I believe to be a good thing from what I've read around the shop here.
So, I took the igniter off so I could pull it apart and see if I can't fix it going by the schematic Matchless was so kind to provide.
However, the thing is sealed up solid, no way in that I could see without destroying the casing.
So, a bit of time later, I got most of the outside casing off:
It says manufactured 10/81 by Suzuki, it's a GS450, and the VIN is GS450-520025. That's it. No E or S or anything helpful like that.
Anyways... I put it on the car battery again tonight, and this time left the coils plugged in and disconnected the igniter. There's the answer, coils are fine with 12.6 volts, plug the igniter in, and down they go to 10.6 volts again.
I disconnected the igniter again and flicked both coils to ground and got what looked like a nice spark, so the coils are functioning just fine and dandy by the looks.
I'm now convinced I have a faulty igniter... yay.
I did replace the left spark plug cap tonight, so both are new NGK's:
I then took some closer up shots of the R/R connector to try to determine what's changed with it from OEM:
It looks to me like they've wired the stator directly to the R/R without going via the headlight switch, which I believe to be a good thing from what I've read around the shop here.
So, I took the igniter off so I could pull it apart and see if I can't fix it going by the schematic Matchless was so kind to provide.
However, the thing is sealed up solid, no way in that I could see without destroying the casing.
So, a bit of time later, I got most of the outside casing off:
G
Guest
Guest
Which revealed that there's an inside casing as well that appears to be some sort of solid resin or something that is as tough as nails:
So, time to start searching around here to see if anyone's tried to repair one of these suckers and if so, how they got inside it.
Otherwise, guess I'll be starting a new thread in the electrical forum to see how to get into the thing...
So, time to start searching around here to see if anyone's tried to repair one of these suckers and if so, how they got inside it.
Otherwise, guess I'll be starting a new thread in the electrical forum to see how to get into the thing...
M
Matchless
Guest
Which revealed that there's an inside casing as well that appears to be some sort of solid resin or something that is as tough as nails:
So, time to start searching around here to see if anyone's tried to repair one of these suckers and if so, how they got inside it.
Otherwise, guess I'll be starting a new thread in the electrical forum to see how to get into the thing...
Pete,
I have taken a Suzuki self cancelling unit apart in the same way. I found the potting compound on those could be softened by soaking it overnight in lacquer thinners and then removing a layer at a time. A hot air gun also worked well, but tended to melt the wire insulation and the plastic labels on the condensers.
There is another alternative and that is using two IM45 HEI ignition modules if your bike has mechanical advance.
Good luck
G
Guest
Guest
Cheers for that Matchless.
I started another thread over in the electrical forum this morning before I saw your reply.
At this stage there's the possibility of a cheap one available in the US, but I discovered this morning my house mate has a heat gun, so I may give that a gentle go yet.
Still undecided at the moment, but hope to make a decision soon...
G
Guest
Guest
So, first off, I'm going to make a new ignitor.
As per this thread:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=171782
I have made a decision on it so hopefully a functioning ignitor won't be too far away and I can get some spark for that first start.
On the repair of the old one which I will persevere with also, I ended up with two options for getting rid of the resin:
Acetone and a heat gun.
I started off with the head gun and while it really loosened up the resin and made it a lot easier to chip away with the chisel, I was getting quite concerned that I was going to fry other components that aren't faulty from the heat.
You can see I managed to expose a little bit of circuit board already, but there's still a whole lot of resin to be removed yet:
So, it's now soaking in a bit of acetone to see if that will soften it up to allow me to remove it a bit more safely:
So, while I wait for that to soak, I decided to clean up the clutch actuator and get it fitted into the sprocket cover again.
Started off like this:
The spring in these photos is actually not the correct one, I found that out when I opened the tin with the screws in it, so you'll see the correct one soon...
Much cleaner, and yes, they really are the same parts, just had a short soak in kero and a good go over with a kero soaked paint brush:
And greased up ready to go back in, with the screws, and now the correct spring:
The threaded channel bit back in place, and oriented correctly so that the grease nipple will work:
And the actuator threaded in with spring attached:
As per this thread:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=171782
I have made a decision on it so hopefully a functioning ignitor won't be too far away and I can get some spark for that first start.
On the repair of the old one which I will persevere with also, I ended up with two options for getting rid of the resin:
Acetone and a heat gun.
I started off with the head gun and while it really loosened up the resin and made it a lot easier to chip away with the chisel, I was getting quite concerned that I was going to fry other components that aren't faulty from the heat.
You can see I managed to expose a little bit of circuit board already, but there's still a whole lot of resin to be removed yet:
So, it's now soaking in a bit of acetone to see if that will soften it up to allow me to remove it a bit more safely:
So, while I wait for that to soak, I decided to clean up the clutch actuator and get it fitted into the sprocket cover again.
Started off like this:
The spring in these photos is actually not the correct one, I found that out when I opened the tin with the screws in it, so you'll see the correct one soon...
Much cleaner, and yes, they really are the same parts, just had a short soak in kero and a good go over with a kero soaked paint brush:
And greased up ready to go back in, with the screws, and now the correct spring:
The threaded channel bit back in place, and oriented correctly so that the grease nipple will work:
And the actuator threaded in with spring attached:
G
Guest
Guest
Locating dowel in place:
Shiny new stainless bolts ready for the sprocket cover and actuator adjustment cover:
Cover on:
And sprocket cover on where it belongs:
I realise it's a little premature given there's no sprocket and no clutch cable, but i really wanted to see how it looked with all the covers on and I've also only just done the bolts up lightly, they're not much more than finger tight right at the moment.
So, now I need to get a parts list together for the ignitor and get them ordered, then start soldering... should be fun for a change I hope.
Shiny new stainless bolts ready for the sprocket cover and actuator adjustment cover:
Cover on:
And sprocket cover on where it belongs:
I realise it's a little premature given there's no sprocket and no clutch cable, but i really wanted to see how it looked with all the covers on and I've also only just done the bolts up lightly, they're not much more than finger tight right at the moment.
So, now I need to get a parts list together for the ignitor and get them ordered, then start soldering... should be fun for a change I hope.
L
Leigh
Guest
Pete, I saw this and thought of you and your high pipe plan..
thought you might be able to pick some ideas off it.
More photos on the eBay listing
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/YAMAHA-XS-650-1978-/270711186221?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item3f07a4e32d
thought you might be able to pick some ideas off it.
More photos on the eBay listing
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/YAMAHA-XS-650-1978-/270711186221?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item3f07a4e32d
G
Guest
Guest
Pete, I saw this and thought of you and your high pipe plan..
thought you might be able to pick some ideas off it.
More photos on the eBay listing
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/YAMAHA-XS-650-1978-/270711186221?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item3f07a4e32d
Nice one... I have a collection here of photos like that I have acquired along the way, and that's another very nice example.
The XS650 definitely lends itself to the tracker look, so I'm hoping my 450 will end up doing justice to the scrambler look... just have to wait and see if I can do it or not...
