1984 Katana 7/11

[Guest]

Hahaha no indeed I don't Greg!!! Found this just after logging out earlier: http://zeus.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/80-83_GS1100T-LT-EX-1000SZ-EZ-SD-ED-ESD.pdf

Even though I should know better the GS/GSX thing still manages to catch me out... I initially thought that was for the 2 valve GS' not the 4 valve GSX's...

 

[Guest]

Last night I got the clutch plates out but got stalled on the hub nut... I'd forgotten that I managed to do a dodgy on the wee beastie (450) when I did its clutch. I don't recall what the dodgy was but I remember thinking I'm never doing that again, I will buy a proper tool to hold the hub next time... never bought one so I can't get the hub nut off dammit!


I'll make some enquiries today as I see there's a few types around. That's a tool that will come in very handy!


I haven't measured the friction plates yet but I did give the basket a wiggle and it seems a touch on the loose side, possibly 1mm play sideways and a little in/out as well. I'm not sure if that's normal or not but will have a good look/measure once I get it out and will take note of Paul's tips on trying to alleviate any rattling that may potentially be there.


So given I'm effectively stalled on that for the moment, I pulled out the head and barrels for a closer look.








No cross hatching in evidence but the bores are clean, smooth, and no scoring etc. so that's a good start. I only have my cheapo digital verniers so don't have a way of measuring them accurately at the moment. I haven't looked into tools for measuring bores at this point...


And onto the head.











Very clean inside and all the rocker arms (I assume that's correct terminology) seem to be moving ok and smoothly. Not sure if it's worthwhile removing them or not, haven't gotten that far in the manual yet


Someone's done some of the hard work for me and removed a lot of the carbon from the head also. Some of those marks look like gouges in the photos but they feel smooth to the finger. Running my fingers around the valve seats tells me no nicks or anything obviously horrible, so a lap job might be all that's required. I'm not really sure how to tell if I need to cut them though.


And the inlet and exhaust ports look pretty clean as well, and I think someone has probably cleaned up the exhaust ports already.

 

[Guest]

Back on to the clutch... it's amazing the different the correct tool makes! Paid a visit to John yesterday to pick up the tools and was very pleased to see the progress on the G outfit as well.


Less than 30 seconds effort had the hub nut off and the hub out so on the way once again.


The rivets on the basket are solid and that all looks good, however I do have one issue to sort out... get a load of that spring!








What's the go with replacing that? I don't see anything in the fiche or manual about it but I'm sure I've seen posts about replacing them. I haven't started searching just yet.


The other thing I've noticed is wear marks in the basket and hub from the clutch plate fingers. I seem to recall that some light ridges like this is serviceable and any real sharp edges just need to be sanded back. Does that sound right?








And while it looks nice and clean behind there, I can see someone's already started butchering one of the screws down the bottom there so I'll need to be careful with the impact driver when I get that far.





All the top crankcase bolts are loose after a run around with the impact driver too, so I think it's pretty much ready to get flipped over and work towards splitting the cases.

 

[dorkburger]

Has some port work been done on the head?

 

[Fjbj40]

That wear in the basket is typical. It can be worse if aftermarket clutch plates such as Barnett have been used.

I use a small fine file to dress them out then follow with 240 or finer sandpaper. Expect to spend a couple of hours cleaning it up. The amount of material removed is minimal as what you are seeing is material pushed up into little hills.

 

[posplayr]

Pete one obvious thing on those ports is that the value guides have been cut. You can compare to the photos here which is a pretty aggressive port but certainly not the most aggressive even for street.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ormance-GS1100E-Head-work&p=999223#post999223

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Door's on the wrong side

Door's on the wrong side

I got some more bits the other day, some are on loan to get me going some I'll be buying, but I haven't had a chance to get in and sort everything out yet due to shed building time.

It's getting close to being done on the outside though...

Looks like you put the door on the wrong side.
From the look of that narrow side yard, you should have a door on the end facing the street. So you can roll your bike in and out mo ez.
Bill

 

[Guest]

Cheers guys!

FJB: Thanks for that, time is something I can definitely provide, so cleaning those up on the basket and hub is definitely doable. Good to know!

Dorkburger and Jim: A ported head hey? That would be a bonus! Like the rest of the motor it's an unknown quantity so I have no idea on that. The only GS/X head I've seen in the metal is my 450 head, and looking at the Kat head I thought to myself it looked a lot cleaner inside. I figured it was just what they do, but obviously not!

Any way to tell if it's a good job or not? Looking at the sizes I'd say it's still set for stock valves though, might have to pull the valves out and make sure they all fit in ok.

Looking at Jim's pic's I can certainly see what you're both talking about.

Bill: No dramas on the door, the shed's not actually going to store the Kat, it's mainly for working on stuff like blasting and spraying as well as some storage. However, if I need to the Kat can be wheeled in/out without too much drama.

Also, a quick update... I've been pointed here http://gszone.biz/clutches.html for a clutch hub rebuild kit to sort that broken spring out, but I believe worst case scenario I can still run it as is if I need to.

And I managed to get the engine stand made yesterday and got the motor mounted upside down ready to split the cases.


I turned the crank again to give it a feel and had this little tidbit drop out. I'm hopeful that given the bottom end had nothing on top that something has fallen in, but the colour and material certainly could be an internal bit that has broken off and has been floating around in there :eek-new: We'll see when I get them split...





The stand is not the most elegant solution but it seems nice and solid and gets the motor at a good height to work on. I may add another cross brace yet if it seems to flex too much with sideways force from an impact driver as I have yet to get the various retainers out from behind the clutch.

 

[posplayr]

I think you should budget for a heavy duty backing plate and the heavy duty nut.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Nice engine work stand IMO.
For my savage understanding, how did you hoist it up there?

 

[dorkburger]

Ha, I'm certainly no expert on the topic, but the inlet ports looked to have thinner walls then the 1100s I've owned.

 

[Guest]

I think you should budget for a heavy duty backing plate and the heavy duty nut.

There may be a basket available locally here which should solve it, but if not then yes definitely! The trick will be trying not to add too much more to the order... lots of tasty goodies on that site!!

Nice engine work stand IMO.
For my savage understanding, how did you hoist it up there?

Cheers Bill! Will let you know how it holds up to the impact driver punishment.

My house mate gave me a hand lifting and flipping it. He supported the front while I used one hand to support the back and the other to slide the rear engine mount bolt in, then the front bolt was pretty easy. It's not a one man job! Well not with my spindly arms anyway...

Ha, I'm certainly no expert on the topic, but the inlet ports looked to have thinner walls then the 1100s I've owned.

Ah cool, I'd never seen one before so you're far closer to being an expert than I

 

[viperg]

Ok finally time for some fun!!!

Got the shed to a point where I can start using it, so I moved the frame in there yesterday and loosely assembled a lot of what I have so I can get an understanding of where I'm at.

Need some wheel spacers, triple clamp fasteners, and so on to start with but I was still able to get this far:





Looking good! Nice bit of Kat parts you have collected there to make your dream bike. Nice job!

 

[Guest]

Cheers mate! Yeah I'm pretty happy with how quickly I was able to get the majority of the bits, and I'm stoked to finally be getting into it!

I managed to nearly give myself a heart attack last night! I started on the retainers under the clutch, first one off was the one with the buggered up screw head and is for the cam driven bit on the end of the shift shaft. I didn't realise that it was spring loaded so I just pulled it out... breathed a huge sigh of relief when I managed to find all the pawls and pins. Just gotta sort out which goes where when it comes to reassembly time...

The engine stand seems to be nice and stable even with the sideways force of the impact driver with the mini sledge, so that's a relief too!

Got some of the other retainer screws loose before it got a bit too late to be hammering the impact driver so I got the sump cover off.

I was quite surprised to see how clean it is in there! Although someone has started butchering the screws on the strainer.





At least there's a gasket this time! No gasket under the clutch cover, just gasket goo, and I removed the gear position sensor also last night and it also had a run of gasket goo around it.

Then I noticed this sitting on the towel under the motor to catch any oil drips:



Definitely a Suzuki S on one bit and part of Japan on another... starting to get a bit concerned about what may lie inside.

I'm hopeful it's just a bit of casting been knocked off by something that's not important but I'll see soon enough...

 

[Guest]

I was stuck on the front sprocket as there's nothing there to use for leverage.

After a few suggestions from the helpful Katana Australia folk I got the nut and sprocket off last night with no damage to anything at all. I damped down an old towel and draped that all over the motor so the only thing the welder would hit was the sprocket. I used the mount against the work bench for leverage rather than the engine case, didn't want to risk any damage at all.


Brace yourself for some of Pete's Awesome Welding... it ain't pretty...





I also got another couple of the retainers off last night and loosened the smaller crankcase bolts. Two retainers to go and the big crankcase bolts and then it's case splitting time.

 

[tatu]

You could've used the drive chain bunched up onto a solid part of the crankcase with a piece of wood as padding, will you be able to save that damper on the sprocket now?

 

[Guest]

I would've liked to but unfortunately I have no spare chain around and if I did it would be 530 not 630. I'm doing the 530 conversion also so I'm not too worried about it... at least not yet anyway

 

[Guest]

I confirmed yesterday the ruined damper is going to be a non issue, the 530 conversion is just a standard sprocket with a 6mm spacer on the nut side.

The oil strainer and last retainer came out last night. Strainer looks clean (hard to show in a photo through the mesh) and surprise surprise more gasket goo under the retainer...











Then I managed to get all crankcase bolts out without breaking any (yay!) and got the cases split.


The inside again is looking all clean, everything seems to rotate smoothly. I'm assuming if the crank was twisted it would be pretty obvious. Looks like it's all had enough oil left around it to stop it corroding and prevent any surface rust etc. I do need to start measuring things of course.











And a keen eye on that last photo should show where the little broken bits have come from.








I'm going to assume it was run with a loose cam chain at one point and it's caught on the cam chain guide holder and smashed it. I'm not sure how else that could happen. They're $11.75 from Mick Hone but the tricky bit will be getting that broken post back in securely. There's no front chain guide on this either so it may have taken that out as well.


If it was me with no alternatives, I'd JB Weld it, but I really think there's a much better solution to that. Anyone have suggestions on the best way to go about securing it with the least chance of it coming adrift again?

 

[tatu]

Doesn't that anchor the bottom of the cam chain slipper shoe? If so its really quite important, maybe fab up something new altogether to do the same job/

 

[Guest]

Yup tatu, that's it! And yes quite important! So far it looks like the best solution will be to drill and tap a hole where the post was and make up a suitable length and diameter spacer to replicate the post. Then use a longer screw to hold it in place.

A closer look last night says there should definitely be enough meat in the case to do so. I'll be getting someone more skilled than I to do this though, that's one task I'm definitely not up for!

Anyway, I figured it was time to take a closer look at the head and check the valves out last night given the damage. I definitely wanted to make sure there were no bent valves and on that count I can breathe a sigh of relief... they're all straight and actually look pretty decent. In better condition than the 450's were in fact and the guy who did the facing and tipping cleaned them up with the sand blaster so these should come up very nicely.

Here's some close ups of what you guys think is the porting work and the cut valve guides:









The only way I think I could check if it's a good job or not would be to take it to a cylinder head guru and get it checked out. I assume measuring flow rate or something would be the ticket. I'm assuming that's a few $$$ though...

Next up, 16 valves accounted for:



Exhausts look a little crusty with carbon as you'd expect but the faces look good to my eyes:



Inlets not so crusty and faces look good:



I haven't measured them yet I just realised but I'll definitely get them faced and tipped.

I have no real easy/accurate way to measure the valve guides that I can think of (don't think my cheapo verniers are up to that) so I slotted all the valves in the head to see how the fit was, and they all feel good. No free play and a bit of resistance when trying to get them in there. Looks like they all sit in well and looking at the valve seats again I still reckon a lap job will do the trick. I will definitely replace the stem guide seals with genuine ones too.



I also had a closer look at the advancer and yep it's good to go, just needs a bit of lube which is an easy job providing I don't lose the E clips (almost did that on the 450).



Continued...