4month nap wake up-Spark only on 2&3!

[Kara25]

Hi guys long time no see! So after putting away my fresh totally rebuild motor with only 200Kms on my garage due to super busy and demanding working conditions 7/7 i finally found some time to go maybe for a little ride. Hooked up my lithium ion battery (had it taken home when i parked and covered the bike in the garage) added 5L of fresh fuel pulled the choke and the beast woke up after super fast and easy! But something was wrong immideatly i could tell that the exhaust note was rough and sounding like a harley than an inline 4. Anyway i started riding away on the neighbourhood but the bike would surge and not pull like it was just 4 months ago. I thought ok pilots got gummed from sitting even though i drained the bowls maybe i will be super lucky and adding some techron later will clear it up. Didnt even tried that. Came to halt cause the bike clearly was struggling and it dawned to my while i was trying to keep it idling to pull the wires of each plug to see if i have electricity on all 4. Pulling No1 NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. Pulling No4 IMMIDIATELY IT DIED! Ok now thats weird i limp it back home take the tank off and use an old plug on each wire laying on the head. 2&3 super strong and fat spark as long as i keep pressing thr button. 1&4 only a tiny spark the moment i first press the button and then completely dead no matter how long the starter button is pressed! Bike has in the course of the past 3 years in order. 1. Accel supercoils- 3ohm.2.lithium battery.3.New aftermarket ignitor from EU based vintage motorcycle electronics company called Wielctronic.4. Ricks stator DIRECTLY hooked to Ricks lithium ion specific R/R.4 New Arrowhead starter relay . what i managed to figure out was that even though i was running on 2 maybe sometimes 3 pots the battery charged ok during my short ride after pulling out the multimeter to start checking things it showed 13.93V. So i assume stator and R/R are OK. also neasured ohms at coils both show almost 4oms and from 13,9V at the terminals they show 13,2V. I think a 0,7Volt loss is at acceprable limits?? So any thoughts??? Is the <<new>> igniter trash??? Or i need a new Accel coil?? Also tested the signal generator using the method on Clymers and i am getting 73ohms while checking both connections on the generaror side to the ground which is in the ranges the manual states 60-80ohms so pickups are also ok.! What is going on any ideas??

 

[unfocused]

You can test for 12v at the coils and then check the signal wire. If both test good... replace the coils. Even though Accel use to make good stuff, it's a product I don't use anymore. I just did a small write up about the Dyna coils I installed.
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If testing shows an issue, suspect the pickup or wiring. My Dyna pickup gave me fits recently only to learn how to test them and found out the wiring was problematic. Similar running issues to yours.
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If you have at least 12v in your battery/charging system, this isn't an issue. Anything over 12.5v and under 14.7v is acceptable. Under 12.5 is normal battery voltage and won't last long. Anything over 14.5 starts to compromise battery integrity. Not an issue with lithium as they can stand charging in the 16v range

 

[Kara25]

unfocused the pickup checked ok to the test and the weird thing is that i had coils fail im various motorcycles but once they died they DIED. This one sparks only for a moment very weak and then goes to 0 spark

 

[Grimly]

Try swapping the coil feeds around and see if the fault follows.
IF it does, the coils are ok.
That leaves the possibility of the ignitor and/or pickups being faulty.
Return wiring to normal at the coils.
Swap the pickup wires around if possible, see if the fault follows.

 

[unfocused]

Kara25 - coils do heat cycle and will work when cold - not always but it's been seen before. Another issue that I didn't mention. You pulled [NODE="4"]n[/NODE]umber 4 wire and the engine died. This tells me at that time it was barely running on 1 cylinder. This was one of my issues when I discovered a poor wiring choice I made... I always keep a spare coil around just for this type of testing.

The engines I deal with have a service procedure to change all the coils as certian hour intervels. And they're not cheap. Pick shows x1 side...LOL

 

[Kara25]

Didnt have the time to swap the wires only do some basic Ohm testing on the coils bcs every coil i ever saw fail it did it hot and afterwards showed almost 0ohms on the multimeter. But this one shows 4ohms ...

 

[Kara25]

When i get some time what i will probably do is clean some grounds although i did it when i assembled the bike 4 months ago and cant imagine a ground getting dirty on a bike stored in a closed garage and covered with a soft cloth..

 

[unfocused]

I spent about 20 years in the automotive industry. Points, electronic ignition and then this new stuff. With points and electronic, we would see coils fail as I've previously mentioned. We would also see magnetic pick ups and ignition modules fail - only under hot conditions. I've seen crankshaft/camshaft sensors do this as well. To test them properly we would heat them up with a heat source and continue testing. Ignition module testors have a heat cycle to heat them up.
Also, I've seen intermittent misses/sputtering on failing items.

One thing I've seen in my time is cracks in the housings will let spark or signal travel the path of least resistance.

But your experience is normal - when a coil fails - it's dead. However, we're both aware that further testing is needed.

I didn't see what ignition you're running. I did see that you've replaced the ignitor.

FYI - I'll possibly be offline for a day or two - Pesky hurricane coming our way - I'm inbetween Wed Eve and the red cone of uncertainty... the after parties are wonderful and seeing how it's a holiday weekend, I might be lost for a couple of "extra" days.

 

[pdqford]

Didnt have the time to swap the wires only do some basic Ohm testing on the coils bcs every coil i ever saw fail it did it hot and afterwards showed almost 0ohms on the multimeter. But this one shows 4ohms ...

Assuming that 4 ohms is the primary resistance of the 2/3 coil.
How does that compare to the primary resistance of the 1/4 coil.
(In your 1st post you indicated that you installed Accel 3.0 ohm supercoils.)

What is the resistance on the secondary side of those coils to the plug caps?

And what is the resistance between the primary and secondary windings of each coil.

Might be worth taking those resistance readings when the coils are cold and when hot.

 

[Kara25]

I am (was) running 1.stock pickups on the right hand crank side 2. Accel supercoils 140403.3 afrermarket ignitor for about a year and a half. I know my connections are fairly clean bcs the voltage drop to the coils with key on is less than 1 volt (0,7V). All fuses are nice and clean fusebox clean as a whistle pickups passed the clymers test . Only thing i will try before checking secondary resistances at the coils is to clean the ignitor ground spot which i doubt has any corrosion at all and hope it cures it. Otherwise time to go the Dyna green coil route as everyone else.

 

[pdqford]

Only thing i will try before checking secondary resistances at the coils is to clean the ignitor ground spot which i doubt has any corrosion at all and hope it cures it. Otherwise time to go the Dyna green coil route as everyone else.

Wouldn’t a bad ignitor ground effect both coils?

 

[Kara25]

Probably but at least i want to know i did everything before searching for replacement parts. My OEM ignitor when it died it was firing intermieate. Every 50 meters the bike would behave like you pulled all 4 plug wires at once. No spark at any plug.Then after some time it would start again untill it died for good after 2 hours of this. I sure hope that ignitors go out like this with no spark at any plug and not in a way that one coil fires very good and the other a tiny bit and then nothing..

 

[Suzukian]

I've had many coils go, working, then not working when they got hot. You more than likely have a bad coil. The good thing is that it shouldn't be hard to find a coil that will work for that bike. You just need to match the Ohms of the winding. Such a great looking bike!

 

[Kara25]

Well hello sir! Suzukian How life treating you its been a long time (still no yoshima bike pics) . Yeah tomorrow i will move the suspect coil on the wires that feed 2&3 and see if it also fails to fire there... now bugdet is tigjt bcs i went and bought a BIG BOX of all oil cooler parts including the adaptor and a 10 series SETRAB cooler that i will start a thread in later date on how ti hook this thing up! Considering this i went ahead and bought some second had original Gs550 katana coils for dirt cheap i know it might bite me in the a$$ down the road but who knows they might work perfectly woth 4 new boots and cliping a little bit of the wires! the problem is that my plugs are rhe stadar gs650 plus D8EA but all the ngk boots that i find they have resistors inside. Any reccomendarions? I read here that getting plug caps with resistors is not recommended

 

[Suzukian]

The resistors are not help reduce radio emissions from the old analog radio gauges. I wouldn't get them, or worry about it. The CB400F is very tucked away in my Barn. I had to built another shed to work on my 2 operating bikes, and the CB400 is not up to "show off" standards yet, though it's all their, just needs a lot of elbow grease. I hope all is going well in Greece. Much harder getting parts on an island country where everything costs more. I have an economic problem now also, my pockets seem to be empty.

Kara25​, May all good things come your way on that beauty of a bike you have created.