82-83 GS1100 Top End Oiler Install

[posplayr]

Actually that sounds like a workable idea

Actually that sounds like a workable idea

Get/make a piece of solid brass rod that you can cut threads on the OD to match the 20 x 1.5 thread. Then center drill that threaded rod to put in a fitting to match the return line into the undrilled casting.

As Roberto mentioned the threaded rod need to be long enough to go down and seal against the inner surface of the casing. A nice little groove in the ed of the pipe for an o-ring would work perfect.

You will now have captured the entire flow from the pump>filter and can route it to your cooler. Return back to the plate. The only issue is the max size that the casting will support; this is your total oil flow not just an top end oiler like I'm doing.

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

Spent some time this afternoon looking at different options and making my own adapter seems to be the best option. Simple threaded rod, with jamb nut so the height can be adjusted, looks to be the ticket. Will post details after talking to my machine shop buddy.

 

[posplayr]

I was thinking for of a custom fit pipe thread

I was thinking for of a custom fit pipe thread

If you are going to make it adjustable with a lock nut you might want to add an o-ring with a small grove on the outside to capture the o-ring underneath the lock nut. This is how the APE mechanical cam tensioner works. I have an old one which doesn't show it as well, but on the new one I had , I think there is a definite grove to hold the o-ring under the lock nut.

As I think about it , an o-ring is probably mandatory if you are not using tapered pipe thread. There is even more pressure at the plate than what the tensioner sees.

Cutting the threaded pipe to a measured length (even inserting from below) and an end o-ring (or not) would aleviate the issue of the lock nut and any possible leaking or an external o-ring.
On the other hand there is already an o-ring under the entire cover :-s

Posplayr

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

Still chewing on the design...

Earls sells a 20mm x 1.5 adaptor fitting with AN -10 threaded fitting on the other end. The fitting is not long enough to reach down to the oil galley port but I could easily fashion an extension cap that would be captured between the adapter and the galley port. This set up with give me a male AN -10 fitting coming out of the oil pressure sensor cover plate.

I'd like to retain the oil pressure switch function but the stock Suzuki switch is a pig - as in huge. Anyone have a suggestion for a smaller switch I could use? Thinking about a T fitting on top the AN -10 with the sensor on one end and the cooler feed line off the other side.

Also, Earl's sells a ton of different coolers. Any one have a suggestion on how big a cooler to use? Not racing around just trying to protect the engine in stop and go city riding in the dead of summer. http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index.php?shop=Accessories&dept=Oil!_Cooler

 

[posplayr]

Well One thing I had considered for Idiot light

Well One thing I had considered for Idiot light

On the 80-81 GS750's 16V, there is no cover at all on the back of the motor. That is part of why I was so surprised to see your cover on an 850 8V engine no less.

Anyway the 750's have the idiot light smack dead center on the oil filter cover (maybe you knew that already). I dont know if it is the same electrically, but it might just work to swap covers and sensor with an extension to the single wire to the front of the engine. I have the parts that I might be able to test for you if interested (sometime this weekend)
Altenatively if the sensor woudl work, you might go just mount it where Renobruce puts his oilpressure gauges (with the proper fitting of course).

Posplayr

 

[robertob]

-10 is freakin' massive! It's like 5/8" ID, or so. You only need 3/8" or -6.

most bike coolers are like 8x4 inches.

 

[posplayr]

robertob

robertob

It is the size of the oil sensor switch that is so massive 20 x 1.5; gotta fill that hole.

Posplayr

 

[Nessism]

-10 is freakin' massive! It's like 5/8" ID, or so. You only need 3/8" or -6.

most bike coolers are like 8x4 inches.

Yup, pretty large hole. Going to have to figure out a reducer scheme of some sort. 8x4 sounds about right. They have a tons of different sizes but I'll shoot for about 32 sq.in.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Guest]

Posplayr,

Do you happen to know the torque for bolts that mount the top end oilers to the cylinder head? I saw someone selling wards or vortex unit on Ebay and they were suggesting 80-100 ft. lbs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOP-...ryZ35595QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That seems like way too much for an aluminum bolt. I bought mine on ebay and didn't get instructions with mine

 

[rapidray]

Posplayr,

Do you happen to know the torque for bolts that mount the top end oilers to the cylinder head? I saw someone selling wards or vortex unit on Ebay and they were suggesting 80-100 ft. lbs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOP-...ryZ35595QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That seems like way too much for an aluminum bolt. I bought mine on ebay and didn't get instructions with mine

You only tighten them enough to keep them from leaking! You WILL snap them off if you try to make them that tight. That number in INCH pounds is about right. All the ones on my bikes I try to only make tight enough not to leak or come loose. Ray.

 

[Guest]

Rapidray,

Thanks for helping me read the fine print. The ebay ad does say inch pounds, duh.

 

[posplayr]

Ward Performance

Ward Performance

I found the notes from the install. 80-100 inch-lbs that is 6.7-8.4 ft-lbs MAX.

Posplayr

 

[terry]

Here you go guys, Tom (Isleoman) asked me to make him an adapter for his top end oiler kit that allows him to retain his OEM pressure switch and GS1150 oil temp sender, so today I designed and machined up this adapter, that I call, "The Hydrant", ha ha!

Installation is a breeze, and can probably be installed with everything in place. If you can remove your oil pressure switch, (and loosen the two 10mm hex head screws) then you can install my adapter in just a few minutes.

It's a one piece item that threads into the oil pressure switch plate, (It'll work in most GS bikes from the 8 valve GS750 thru to the 16 valve 1150) with a knurled threaded ring to secure it in any position, and directs all of the oil flow up to your oil lines.

I'd promised to take the wife to the movies so didn't have time to go shopping for some nice NPT-to-AN hose fittings, so for the purpose of these pics I just threaded it for 1/8" NPT barbed fittings.

If anyone would like one, the price is $50.00 to GSR members, plus $20.00 airmail to your door. Cheers, Terry.

 

[posplayr]

Nice solution

Nice solution

I guess you have been continuing to think about this problem and you really went "out of the box" for this. Even though it is taller, it looks cleaner than some of the previous solutions (although your other block was also clean).

OK just to be clear, you have posted this under a "Top End oiler" thread, but you say

and directs all of the oil flow up to your oil lines.

So I'm confused or maybe you were just in a hurry for your explaination. A top end oiler for a 1100/1150 at least directs a portion of the flow after the OEM pressure switch to the cams, it also allows "parallel" flow to the transmission and engine gallaries.

At least according to your quote above, if you capture all of the flow and route it to the cams (both NTP fittings are outputs), the engine will starve for oil although the cams will be nicely lubricated. I dont really understand how a 8V motor would have any different top end oiler requirements than the 1100/1150 (assuming the opening are avaliable at the cams), so it woudl seem to suffer the same problem.

I can see how capturing all the flow is a requirement for the 8V oil coolers, but you would need to return the flow back to the gallaries and I think both of your fittings are outputs. I know you dont want to return the oil filter cover (see my previous warnings on that one).

I dont want to come right out and say "it wont work", but I'm really confused from your description how this does works.

Please explain.

Posplayr

P.S. The more I think about it the more it sounds like you mistyped. You really are not capturing all of the flow and routing it out of the NTP fittings, but are also allowing flow to go back to the motor inside of the "Hydrant". Assuming this is the case, then your solution should work for 8V or 1100/1150 and for the 8V it can be used in conjunction with the oil cooler block as well.

P.S2 Looking at the picture more closely, it looks like the two NTP fittings feed oil out from the main oil flow from the oil pump before the pressure switch. It there is no additional porting, then this will starve the engine of oil. If there is additional porting, then that will further alter the behaviour of the pressure switch.

 

[terry]

Ha ha, yeah mate, I was in a hurry, and the battery in my camera went flat before I could take some pics of the bottom half of my adapter.

The portion that sits between the bottom of the plate and the crankcase is cross-drilled to allow oil flow fore and aft, but I've purposely used a small drilling (3mm) so that the bulk of the oil pressure hits the pressure switch. I've also machined the base for the pressure switch contact a little bit lower to reduce the spring tension, so less pressure is required to open the valve.

As the oil lines are quite small ID, they will work as a "reducer" slowing the flow of oil through the lines, and allowing more oil to flow back into the galleries. I did think about another take off from the "Hydrant" with a return line back thru the switch plate, (maybe using a "T" like you've done) or making a whole new base plate, but I wanted to keep it simple, and anyway, I don't think it's necessary.

The reason I built the adapter was to capture more oil, your solution is nice and simple, but the problem that I see is that yours is positioned directly above a "drain" into your transmission, so with the restriction of the small ID lines and not much pressure pushing the oil up there at that point, I imagine that most of the oil will flow into the drain below your adapter with not much oil actually moving thru your lines.

Once my camera battery is fully charged, I'll post a couple more pics. Cheers, Terry.

 

[terry]

Here's some pics of another one I made today, it's a combined oil cooler/top end oiler adapter, as I figure the 8 valve GS guys who are modifying their bikes for performance would benefit from both a cooler and a top end oiler, and the 16 valve guys who aren't keen on oil lines running close to hot headers might like it too.

Sadly I ran out of time today, but next weekend I'll make up a "kit" with some nice braided lines for my GS1000 engine, and I'll post some pics. Cheers, Terry.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Hey Terry, I installed my cooler, and thanks on that adaptor man its beautilicious and BTW, they buff up shinier than the top of the Chrysler building. But, my oil pressure light wont shut off at all. I know i have correct pressure cos i am using a RenoBruce gauge, but is there anything i can do to correct its sense that its low on pressure? Right now i simply disconnected it so the light would go out. Any suggestions?? Thanks

TCK

 

[terry]

G'Day mate, thanks for that, I'm glad you like it! Was it you who posted the pics of the polished adapter in another thread? It looks fantastic, I might use those pics (if you don't mind, of course) when I put one on EBay soon.

I haven't had a problem like you've described before, but try this: add another "O" ring (or a thicker one) to the existing one on the oil pressure switch, this will slightly raise the switch and reduce the pressure on the spring in the switch, and should cure the problem, with no oil leaks.

One other thought: One guy I sold an adapter to had a problem with the oil pressure light flickering, but as he was running a big cooler he added another pint of oil, and his light stopped flickering. just a thought..... Cheers, Terry.

 

[TheCafeKid]

G'Day mate, thanks for that, I'm glad you like it! Was it you who posted the pics of the polished adapter in another thread? It looks fantastic, I might use those pics (if you don't mind, of course) when I put one on EBay soon.

I haven't had a problem like you've described before, but try this: add another "O" ring (or a thicker one) to the existing one on the oil pressure switch, this will slightly raise the switch and reduce the pressure on the spring in the switch, and should cure the problem, with no oil leaks.

One other thought: One guy I sold an adapter to had a problem with the oil pressure light flickering, but as he was running a big cooler he added another pint of oil, and his light stopped flickering. just a thought..... Cheers, Terry.

No problem mate! use the pics if you like, tho the polishing credit will have to go to Steve from the board here. He has a habit of polishing everything that will take a shine, a good habit of course I will give that oring a shot. Ive actually had my oil system OVER full when i first installed the cooler system, and of course it found its way out of every weak gasket it could untill the volume came down to a reasonable level Thankfully it was simple gaskets like the half moon plugs, and the cam tensioner gasket. No biggie. So, that wouldnt work for me...lol. I am kinda thinking maybe the plate on the end of the pressure switch is hanging up in the bore you make for it, and the extra ring may get it away from the spot it hangs up in. My problem is different from most, as most ive read have a problem with it coming on at idle, mine stays on all the time, so this is what leads me to believe its hanging up. Thanks again Terry, terrific product, only thing I would suggest, and I guess this onus could be put on the buyer, is maybe to include stainless bolts for us guys who want to shine em up. We gave a shine to the included bolts and they were nice and shiney till the first time they got wet, then they flash rusted. Ahh well....cosmetics is cosmetics. I know my bike is much happier with her nice temperature moderated oil tho!!

TCK

 

[terry]

No worries mate, I was providing stainless screws for years, but my local supplier shut up shop so I've been at the mercy of my hardware store, but I'll make an effort to only supply stainless from now on, thanks for your feedback! Cheers, Terry.