'82 GS300L Restore & Timing Adjustment - Complete Noob

[hjacobmiller]

Here is what I've got:

This is a non-mechanical advance right?

It looks like the 450 has the same crankshaft #12220-11901 but not the same balancer. So a 450 mechanical advance rotor (#33120-44120?) should fit that crank I'm assuming. The listed bolts through the center aren't the same but I don't see any reason why I couldn't just use mine. But if crank is the same I'd bet that the bolt is the same too, at least the same threads. Unless the bolt goes into the balancer instead of the crank. I don't know which one the bolt goes into - embarrassing I know. Sorry!

It looks like the 650 used the same mechanical advance as the 450 (#33120-44120) used and there are a couple of ones up on ebay right now for cheap.

The last thing I would need to check is to see if the Dyna would fit the existing holes to mount. If so, my thought is to use 650 (and 450) advance and then get the Dyna.

Oh lord what a hodgepodge bike this is going to be...!

Oh, and by the way, thanks! I can't believe how helpful! I would be completely clueless without all of the directions!

that's the idea. Best to call dyna and ask them questions about the plate and yours just to see if the bolt spacing is the same and the overall diameter is the same.

 

[Guest]

Sorry, out of the loop on this one again...

Mekanix is onto it I think in that '83 and later 450's and at least the early GS500's share the same ignitor, and going by the photo of your timing cover there the signal generator plate is probably a direct swap as well.

So providing the advance curves are the same everything should be a straight swap...

I have a Dynatek on my 450 (mechanical advance though) and I love it... but in your case you should be able to get away with other 450/500 bits I would think...

 

[hjacobmiller]

It looks like the GS250T used the mechanical advance, which I'm showing as not the same # that the 1982 450 uses. Can't seem to find advancer #33120-11410 used anywhere.

 

[Guest]

The dyna doesn't work with the non mechanical advance. But you could put the advance rotor in.

That one is definitely not a mechanical advance and is like all the later engines looking at your picture.
Looking a it closser, your engine looks exactly like mine for the pickup plate location and size.

So any 450 or 500 ignitor, rotor and pickups 83 and newer could be swapped onto it by the looks of it.

Hmm, I think i might do the swap myself

 

[hjacobmiller]

The only thing I'm worried about is whether the advance will fit. The GS250T (british version of mine) and the GS450 have different part #'s for the advance and I can't find one anywhere for the GS250t.

The dyna doesn't work with the non mechanical advance. But you could put the advance rotor in.

That one is definitely not a mechanical advance and is like all the later engines looking at your picture.
Looking a it closser, your engine looks exactly like mine for the pickup plate location and size.

So any 450 or 500 ignitor, rotor and pickups 83 and newer could be swapped onto it by the looks of it.

Hmm, I think i might do the swap myself

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure if it would.

What is the resistance for one of your pickups ?

I know that the early engines are 60-80 ohms but the later ones are higher.

I'm wondering if you could just replace the ignitor with one from a 450/500 and use your stock pickup's and plate.

I think we've concluded that your pickups are good but the ignitor isn't.

This diagram show's what you got and the actual part numbers.
http://www.powersportsplus.com/part...cycle/1983/GS300L/SIGNAL+GENERATOR/parts.html


I'll measure mine and you can compare it to yours.

like:

plate outer diameter 80mm
plate inner diameter 32.5
bold spacing center to center 70mm
Pickups are at 1 and 8 oclock

 

[hjacobmiller]

That is what the manual says they should be but my ohm meter doesn't like to take readings on them for some reason. It jumps up to something really high for a split second and then back to infinite. It did the same thing for the r/r, which tested fine on another meter.

Honestly if it is possible I would rather convert it to a mechanical advance and put the dnyatek in so that I don't have to worry about the ignitor going bad again. Whether or not I can do that is another story.

I'll go measure shortly. I need to find a metric ruler first though ha ha

I'm not sure if it would.

What is the resistance for one of your pickups ?

I know that the early engines are 60-80 ohms but the later ones are higher.

I'm wondering if you could just replace the ignitor with one from a 450/500 and use your stock pickup's and plate.

I think we've concluded that your pickups are good but the ignitor isn't.

This diagram show's what you got and the actual part numbers.
http://www.powersportsplus.com/part...cycle/1983/GS300L/SIGNAL+GENERATOR/parts.html


I'll measure mine and you can compare it to yours.

like:

plate outer diameter 80mm
plate inner diameter 32.5
bold spacing center to center 70mm
Pickups are at 1 and 8 oclock

 

[Guest]

plate outer diameter 3 1/8
plate inner diameter 11/4
bolt spacing center to center 2 13/16
Pickups are at 1 and 8 o clock

 

[hjacobmiller]

plate outer diameter 3 1/8
plate inner diameter 11/4
bolt spacing center to center 2 13/16
Pickups are at 1 and 8 o clock

Mine is:

Outer: 80
Inner: 28
Bolt center to center: 70
Bolt to crank = 6mm dia x 60mm length x 1.0 pitch

Are your pickups directly across from each other?

Here is my ignitor box:

The back is some sort of sealant and it is a closed unit. If I could get in there and solder in a new transistor it would be a lot cheaper than replacing but I don't think that is possible. It is definitely bad on the left side though.

Trying to see if I can buy a gs300 advance. Found one included with picks ups but I asked if he'd just sell the advance. Found a few gs250 advances which I believe would work because that was the British predecessor to the gs300.

Sounds like the dyna you listed would fit since our bolt hole distances are the same and would work if I put the advance rotor on instead of the rotor I have now. Agreed?

I still am not 100% sure how the ignition system works. I will do some reading up and try to figure it out.

 

[Guest]

Agreed, That ignitor looks just like the newer style 450's and 500's

Its sealed in resin.

Take a look at this:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=182719

 

[hjacobmiller]

So a gs250 advance and the dyna you suggested and that should work together?

GS250/GS300 advance:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advance-Cam...ies&hash=item4149d37c23&vxp=mtr#ht_723wt_1163

And this dyna unit:
http://www.z1enterprises.com/produc...n-DS3-2-Suzuki-GS-fours-with-ND-ignition.aspx

Agreed, That ignitor looks just like the newer style 450's and 500's

Its sealed in resin.

Take a look at this:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=182719

 

[Guest]

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs250-1980-tt_model13417/governor-assyadvance_3312011410/

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gsx400-1981-ex_model13617/governor-assyadvance_3312011410/

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs450-l-1980-1982-usa_model16018/governor-assyadvance_3312044120/

Same numbers for a 250 and 400.

450 has a smaller cap but the advancer part is the same by the looks of it.

That doesn't matter because the dyna comes with a rotor cap that you put on the advancer. So you could even use a 450's advancer and throw away the rotor cap.


Here's the other option

A 500, notice how close it is to yours
http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs500-1989-ek_model13449/partslist/FIG-20.html#results


Pete, What model of dyna did you use ? DS3-2?

 

[hjacobmiller]

The 500 doesn't have the same rotor as mine. Slightly different.

How do I find what models that dynatek works with?

Update: The DS3-C is listed for the 400, so I'm guessing that is the one I need. It is 2x expense as the one you listed. If I could use a 450 advancer I'm guessing I could use the dyna that works with it. Hmmm...

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs250-1980-tt_model13417/governor-assyadvance_3312011410/

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gsx400-1981-ex_model13617/governor-assyadvance_3312011410/

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs450-l-1980-1982-usa_model16018/governor-assyadvance_3312044120/

Same numbers for a 250 and 400.

450 has a smaller cap but the advancer part is the same by the looks of it.

That doesn't matter because the dyna comes with a rotor cap that you put on the advancer. So you could even use a 450's advancer and throw away the rotor cap.


Here's the other option

A 500, notice how close it is to yours
http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs500-1989-ek_model13449/partslist/FIG-20.html#results


Pete, What model of dyna did you use ? DS3-2?

 

[Guest]

I can only find the ds3-3c on Ebay and its 262 but it also includes new coils.
So it does make sense if the coils alone are 125.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynatek-Ign...win-DS3-3C-Includes-DC10-1-Dyna-/380441933824


The 500 is different but the idea is the same having no advancer,

 

[Guest]

Ok, if you go the 450 advance setup, then yes the Dynatek DS3-3C is what you want, and yeah it's twice the price because it has coils with it. The stock coils will burn it out so don't even attempt to use them.

Also, if you use the 450 advance setup and the bolt for it, when you go to put the Dynatek rotor on you will find that there's a big gap between the top of the Dynatek rotor and the bolt.

Dynatek provide a spacer in the 4 cylinder kits and you'll need to ask for one of those for that to work.

The rotor on the points ignition on the older 400's is smaller than the rotor on the 450's electronic ignition, so the Dynatek rotor is made smaller to suit the points setup.

Mekanix, I think I might have got that the wrong way around in my PM to you... I think I said the 450 rotor is smaller which is bollocks...

Here's my album of Dynatek photos:

http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/tt26/starpoint73/GS450/Dynatek/

And here's what I mean about the Dynatek rotor vs. the 450 rotor height (Dynatek on the right):

The brass spacer there was machined up by a mate (john82q) and after measuring I found it matched almost perfectly with what Dynatek provide in their other kits.

 

[hjacobmiller]

Update - called Z1 and Dyna and got some information about dimensions & compatibility. Very helpful guys at both places and I now understand what the advancer and the rotor do. Finally ha ha.

It looks like I am crossing into a lot of uncharted territory!

OK, so Mechanix you have a 400 which shares the same advance as the 250 which is essentially my bike with a mechanical advance. If I put a 250/300 advance on, you're suggesting that the DS3-2 or DS3-1 would work, depending on the stamp of the advance (ND or KD). The only problem is is that the DS3-1 & 2 have a larger plate that mounts differently from ours. The outer diameter is approx. 93 mm vs. our 80 and has a 3 bolt system vs. our 2 bolts directly across from each other. I believe this could work for us with our stock coils and would provide the spark at the correct times since we share the same advancer. The only problem is mounting it. I'm going to take some measurements to see if this unit would even fit in the 300, which I don't think it will because the mount for the pick ups is not directly centered in the cover cavity, at least not in the 300. Drilling a couple holes in the mounting plate would be no issue provided we could align to center, but cutting it down to size would be difficult. It looks like Pete has ground his down some around his oil pressure switch. I actually think unless the cavity where your pickups go is larger than mine, it would be a difficult fit for the DS3-1/2 in the 400 as well. I don't want to put in a used 250/400 ingition box unless I have to, but I agree that they would definitely work provided I put the 250/400 advancer in.

Pete, you have a 450 which doesn't share the same advance as a 250/300/400, which doesn't matter because as long as the advancer in my bike is a gs250/300/400 it will provide the proper amount of timing advance to match the spark with the crank (credit to Z1!). Would you mind taking some measurements to see if the Dynatek unit you put in would fit into my bike? I think the measurements I need are the the outer diameter of the mounting plate, the distance between the bolt holes and the outer edge of the mounting plate, and the distance between the bolt holes, center to center. If you could take these measurements I would appreciate it SO much. I think these dimensions for the original signal generator pickup plates for the GS250/300/400/450 are all the same. And it looks like you have the same pickups as Mechanix's GS400 and the GS250 - #33110-44X50. It seems as though it will fit! But I want to make sure before I start ordering things.

By the way Pete, you're a legend at Dyna and at Z1. Just thought I'd let you know.

Just wanted to share the info - may be helpful. Thank you so much for all of the guidance - would have no clue about any of this if it wasn't for your help!

 

[Guest]

Hey mate, I can definitely get those measurements for you as I still have my original signal generator plate here so I won't even have to pull the timing cover off

I reckon there's about a 99% chance it will fit without measuring.

The 1980 GS250T and 1981 GS250TX both share the same signal generator as my 450, and I'm pretty sure those plates are common in size between all the 250's, 300's, 400's, and 450's.

However, to be 100% sure I will measure but I won't get to it until tonight or maybe tomorrow morning.

I completely forgot I'd done a little grinding where the oil pressure switch sits, but to be honest I don't think you need to do it. I probably went a little overkill there. When I took closeup shots and sent them off to Dynatek, they also thought it probably wouldn't be necessary.

Also, the Dyantek has the pickups and coil driver all on the plate, so the plate has nowhere near as much spare room as the stock signal generator as the pickup/coil driver housing is quite large in comparison. I would think you'd have some difficulty getting extra holes drilled to suit different mounting holes, although I haven't seen the other ones to compare.

And a legend at Dynatek and Z1? Not sure why I would be at Z1 as I haven't dealt with them much, but I did have quite a lot of email conversations with Scott from Dynatek so I can understand why they'd know who I am... and yeah they're definitely great to deal with too.

When I initially asked if the DS3-3C would work on my bike, Scott didn't just say noone had tried it, he started Googling and searching the GSR here and he found my thread about my ignitor woes. That's what I call service!

 

[hjacobmiller]

Thank you so much! I can't remember if Z1 mentioned you or not. I found it amazing that this discussion led me to them and then they referred me to you. They guy said he'd gotten emails about fitting that unit to a GS400 and I immediately asked, is his name Pete? He just started laughing and asked how I knew. Amazing how the internet connects these things ha ha.

Yeah, I believe it will fit as well. I don't know if I will have to find a spacer or not. Since I will have to order an advance to put on my bike I can't take the measurement to see if I need one.

Did you have trouble fitting the unit behind the timing cover?

I don't think drilling any holes would be necessary with the same unit that you used, only to fit the other one that Mechanix had mentioned.

Hey mate, I can definitely get those measurements for you as I still have my original signal generator plate here so I won't even have to pull the timing cover off

I reckon there's about a 99% chance it will fit without measuring.

The 1980 GS250T and 1981 GS250TX both share the same signal generator as my 450, and I'm pretty sure those plates are common in size between all the 250's, 300's, 400's, and 450's.

However, to be 100% sure I will measure but I won't get to it until tonight or maybe tomorrow morning.

I completely forgot I'd done a little grinding where the oil pressure switch sits, but to be honest I don't think you need to do it. I probably went a little overkill there. When I took closeup shots and sent them off to Dynatek, they also thought it probably wouldn't be necessary.

Also, the Dyantek has the pickups and coil driver all on the plate, so the plate has nowhere near as much spare room as the stock signal generator as the pickup/coil driver housing is quite large in comparison. I would think you'd have some difficulty getting extra holes drilled to suit different mounting holes, although I haven't seen the other ones to compare.

And a legend at Dynatek and Z1? Not sure why I would be at Z1 as I haven't dealt with them much, but I did have quite a lot of email conversations with Scott from Dynatek so I can understand why they'd know who I am... and yeah they're definitely great to deal with too.

When I initially asked if the DS3-3C would work on my bike, Scott didn't just say noone had tried it, he started Googling and searching the GSR here and he found my thread about my ignitor woes. That's what I call service!

 

[Guest]

Thank you so much! I can't remember if Z1 mentioned you or not. I found it amazing that this discussion led me to them and then they referred me to you. They guy said he'd gotten emails about fitting that unit to a GS400 and I immediately asked, is his name Pete? He just started laughing and asked how I knew. Amazing how the internet connects these things ha ha.

Yeah, I believe it will fit as well. I don't know if I will have to find a spacer or not. Since I will have to order an advance to put on my bike I can't take the measurement to see if I need one.

Did you have trouble fitting the unit behind the timing cover?

I don't think drilling any holes would be necessary with the same unit that you used, only to fit the other one that Mechanix had mentioned.

Cool, yeah if that was Scott at Dynatek then that makes sense... and yeah it's a small world these days! Haha

Oh, and if you talk to him again, ask him about the installation instructions for the 450

If you end up using a mechanical advancer with the Dynatek rotor I reckon you'll definitely need the spacer. I'd ask for one anyway. The way I saw it I don't think they would charge extra, but I may be wrong.

The unit fit easily behind the cover as it was all the same height as the stock plate, so no dramas there. And if you use the DS3-3C, no extra holes required

 

[hjacobmiller]

Perfect. Yeah I'll probably order directly from them so I can just ask for that spacer. I think I spoke to someone named Larry. I don't think he'll charge me for that spacer either, although I may need a different sized one.

Did you have any trouble fitting their coils underneath the tank? I am a little worried about that because it is tight space on the 300.

I think that in the meantime I am going to take my wiring harness off, unwrap, and clean it. This way I can remove the old ignition system wires and check for damage/wear. I don't know what I'd want to recover it with though.

Cool, yeah if that was Scott at Dynatek then that makes sense... and yeah it's a small world these days! Haha

Oh, and if you talk to him again, ask him about the installation instructions for the 450

If you end up using a mechanical advancer with the Dynatek rotor I reckon you'll definitely need the spacer. I'd ask for one anyway. The way I saw it I don't think they would charge extra, but I may be wrong.

The unit fit easily behind the cover as it was all the same height as the stock plate, so no dramas there. And if you use the DS3-3C, no extra holes required