'82 GS300L Restore & Timing Adjustment - Complete Noob

[hjacobmiller]

Couldn't dip the bowls because the gaskets wouldn't come up without tearing. But I did see the hole for the choke tube and sprayed it out with cleaner really well, I even filled it up to let it soak for a while with the spray cleaner and then I blew it with compressed air. Did the matchstick/wire brush cleaning technique and finally got the pilot jet cleaned really well. It'd been stuck in there but I got it out with a dowel rod.

You were right though. No spark on the left side. Coil seems bad per the resistance testing from the manual. Tried getting a fresh cut on the plug clap but still no good. Going to call the junkyard and see if they have one. It must have been going out intermittently and then just finally went out and that is why it had no power. Are there any aftermarket coils that would be better? I haven't really looked yet. I'm guessing no way to repair.

Reran fuel lines and put an in-line fuel filter in to keep the carbs clean. God, these old bikes are non-stop! Or in my case, non-go....

After that I'd say they are perfectly clean.

Did you dip the bowls? The tube for the choke goes into the bowl and that part can be plugged up too because there is a small restriction jet in there.

There would be gas in the bowls from it sitting for a bit. I meant that when it was acting up that if you check then there would probably be more gas in one than the other if its a fuel problem.

To check spark just put the plugs back in the caps and lay them on the head. Keep them away from the plug holes and crank it over. You will see spark quite easily and if there was gas shooting up from the plug hole (as if it was really flooded) then it would ignite if the plug was right over the hole.
But its really easy to check for spark. Yellow is weak. Blue is good but the real test is with a spark gap tester where you can change the gap and see how far it jumps. That tells you the voltage its outputting.


Nothing you could have done by putting the exhaust on. You might have tight valves or a burn exhaust valve but that's the last thing to look at.

The rockers amplify the lift of the camshaft by 1.53. If you measure the valve clearance between the valves and rocker you are getting the right gap. If you measure the rocker to cam gap its going to be 1.53 times tighter I would think. OR if you set the gap by the cam and rocker its going to be 1.53 times too loose at the valve.


With mine which is almost identical except for 100 more cc's Ive noticed there are only two things that cause it to loose power.

That's running low on fuel in one or more carbs or bad ignition or connections on one side.

Its obvious when its running on one cylinder though. Could be just a bad plug or plug cap.

Flooding and lack of gas gives the same lack of power feeling.



Yes more pics

 

[cowboyup3371]

Just dip the entire bowl and the carb body and get new bowl gaskets from Z1 or Boulevard pretty cheap. It will save you the heartaches later when they don't seal properly.

Also, the fuel filter really isn't totally necessary; the one in your petcock will do just fine IMO

 

[hjacobmiller]

Have working coils on both sides but still no spark on left side. Hoping its either a loose connection somewhere or a bad wire. Don't know if I can find the ignitor box or pickups anywhere.

 

[Guest]

Most likely the wires you redid on the ignitor side since its the only thing you did with the ignition.


Mine was the connections from the coil to the ignitor. those spade connectors in the connector are crap.

I'm guessing that you took the left coil and hooked it up to the right side to see if it sparked right ?


Check and clean all wiring from the coils to the ignitor to the pickups.

check the ignitor connector plug

 

[hjacobmiller]

Only getting about 1/2 a volt to that left coil. I seem to have isolated the loss in voltage to the negative wire for the left coil. The coil works fine with either positive (orange/white) and the right side negative (black w/yellow). Now, how do I go about finding where the bad connection is without having to unwrap the entire harness?

And this may be a dumb question, like most of mine, but can I take the wires from the plastic connectors out and clean them?

I'm guessing the ignitor is OK because I still get spark? Or could the internal circuit for the left side be fried and the right be OK?

Most likely the wires you redid on the ignitor side since its the only thing you did with the ignition.


Mine was the connections from the coil to the ignitor. those spade connectors in the connector are crap.

I'm guessing that you took the left coil and hooked it up to the right side to see if it sparked right ?


Check and clean all wiring from the coils to the ignitor to the pickups.

check the ignitor connector plug

 

[Guest]

Could be fried but doubt it for now.

First of all you can remove those pins from the block. there is a small tab that you can see from the front or back an you can push it out of the way and pull the pin out. You can use a really small flat screwdriver to get them out.

You will always get 12 volts at the coils with the ignition on. If you get that and it you can get some current through it (test with a 23 w signal light to ground) then you can ignore the power side of it.


Now with the ignition its a little tricky. It switches grounds.

While the bike is on it may only be supplying a ground to one side or the other. It was random with mine. So you might be seeing that when your testing. Turn the engine over a bit with the meter on that line for the left coil and you'll see it switch from open to ground and stay at the last thing it was.

I'm still thinking its connections If your getting half a volt at that ground for the left coil then it is capable of switching the ground on.

When I've seen them fried there is an open as the transistor in the ignition module for that side is fried.

If you get 12 v at the coils all the time with the ignition on and while cranking, Then the supply voltage is good but remember to check as close to the coil as you can. Sometimes you can see a bare spot on the coil where the wires we soldered. If not then just go to the coil side of the connector for that coil and see what happens to the voltage. It should drop slightly but should not way down.

Next check the ground side of that connector and crank the engine again. IT should be switching as the engine rotates. If that is bad then go to the plug for the ignitor and poke that with the meter on the wire for that coil. It should switch there. If it does there then it is just a bad connection or wire.




Keep looking and cleaning.

 

[hjacobmiller]

I don't think its connections man. I cleaned everything and still no spark. Tried another spark plug. Thought it might be a loose connection coming from the pickups but replaced that and still no good.

So, with the key turned to the on position I get a reading of 11.57 V on the connector leads going to the right coil. While hitting the starter button it changes to about .02 to .03 V. And stays there until I turn the key off and then back on, and then it goes back up 11.57.

On the connector leads going to the left coil, when the key is turned to the on position, I get a reading of .55 V. When I hit the starter button it jumps up to about .7 roughly while the starter button is pressed, and then goes back down to .55 and stays there after I've let go of the starter button.

I have no idea where to go from here and I am really contemplating giving up and putting it up on Craigslist. Which sucks because I know that with it only running on one cylinder I won't get anything for it.

 

[Guest]

Which wire are you testing?

If its the orange white wire then its really simple to fix.
Just make a jumper from the right orange/white wire to the left orange/white. They are just spliced together somewhere in the harness anyways.

 

[hjacobmiller]

I put the positive side of my meter in the orange/white and the negative in the the white for the testing the left coil. For the right I put the positive in the O/W and the negative in black w/yellow

The weird thing is that I tried the coil with the O/W+ from the left with the B/Y- from the right and it got plenty of spark. So I think I have isolated it to that white -, but it has good continuity going back to the ignitor connector, only .3 ohms resistance.

Which wire are you testing?

If its the orange white wire then its really simple to fix.
Just make a jumper from the right orange/white wire to the left orange/white. They are just spliced together somewhere in the harness anyways.

 

[Guest]

Ok I see what you mean now, You have it narrowed down to the ignitor.

Is the white wire shorted to ground with the ignition on/off?

is it still shorted to ground when the pickup harness is disconnected?

Is is shorted when the main plug to the ignitor is disconnected?

I'm just wondering if maybe its chaffed through somewhere and grounding out that side.


You might be able to use an ignitor from a 400 or 450 if they have one at the scrapyard. The only things to look at is if they are mechanical advance or not .
I couldn't find the part number for your bike but here is the number for a gsx400 with mechanical advance.
pn: 32900-47020

 

[hjacobmiller]

The coil works if I switch the black and yellow from the wiring harness over so I know it isn't the coil. The coils aren't soldered in, just insulated connectors going into terminals on the back, which makes it easier to siwth out and check the wiring. I picked up some different coils from the junkyard for cheap and they definitely put out some spark, when using the wires from the right side.

Tomorrow I'm going to try and put a test jumper on the white wire from the coil back to the ignitor and see if that gets me spark. I think it may be broken inside the harness. I'm guessing ignitor isn't fried because I get spark on the right side. To test if shorted to ground, just put one end in the wire and one to the frame right?

Thanks for looking the part up. I really appreciate it along with all the help.

Ok I see what you mean now, You have it narrowed down to the ignitor.

Is the white wire shorted to ground with the ignition on/off?

is it still shorted to ground when the pickup harness is disconnected?

Is is shorted when the main plug to the ignitor is disconnected?

I'm just wondering if maybe its chaffed through somewhere and grounding out that side.


You might be able to use an ignitor from a 400 or 450 if they have one at the scrapyard. The only things to look at is if they are mechanical advance or not .
I couldn't find the part number for your bike but here is the number for a gsx400 with mechanical advance.
pn: 32900-47020

 

[Guest]

Glad to help.

The ignitor is a two part unit with a left and right. There is a transistor for each side.

That's right just any good ground and the other on the wire your testing with the coils disconnected.

Your trying to see if somewhere its broken and touching ground. You would still get good continuity if the wire is good but that didn't tell you if the wire wasn't shorting to ground.

If you need part numbers :

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs300-l-1982-1983-usa_model16008/partslist/

 

[hjacobmiller]

Jumper wire did nothing. Well, it still didn't get me more than .55 V at the O/W wire with a boost to between about .7 and 1 V with the starter button pushed. Interestingly enough, it gave me the same reading with the pick ups disconnected or connected. So I think I can narrow it down to two things:

Either it is the ignition pick up/oil pressure switch wires, which I did some repair to early on. The connections I made may have come loose or the pickups may have burnt up. They don't look fried but my ohm meter won't take an accurate reading on it so I don't really know how to know for sure they're OK. I'll put new connections on everything and see if that does anything.

My meter did the same thing with the reg/rect which tested fine on a friend's meter. Is there a way to test the output of the pickups to see if they are sending the signal to the ignitor? I'm thinking that if the pickups are good but there is a bad connection between them and the ignitor or if the pickups are bad, the ignitor doesn't get the message to send the signal to the coil to put out a spark. Is my logic right?

The other option, which I am definitely hoping it isn't, is that the left side transistor of the ignitor could be burnt up. I am guessing no way to repair and a new OEM from Flatout is $260 and they are the only place I have been able to locate. I'm guessing a new aftermarket, if it exists, is roughly the same. I've seen the words "Dyna S" in a bunch of other threads... Compatible?

This is what I don't understand - why it would work and then sometimes not. I thought that electrical parts generally burn up and stop working altogether, not intermittently. The previous randomness of this loss of power seemed to be like a loose/bad connection - some days it would give me this problem some days it wouldn't. I'm guessing that if the transistor for the ignitor burnt up, it would be instant and permanent because its just that internal circuit...

I checked for ground to engine, frame or wiring casings (positive on wire negative on engine, frame, wiring casing) on all the pick up wires, the wires from the pick up connector, and the wires to the coils. Had infinite resistance on all of them - EXCEPT both of the O/W wires (after the splice) gave me resistance of 2.4 ohms. I don't know if that is supposed to be there. Could that possibly be where I am loosing power to get the left coil?

I am still suspect of the pickups based on the fact that I get a jump in V (left side) and drop in V (right side) regardless of whether the pick ups are connected or not.

Mekanix or Pete, would you know of anyone who might have a working ignitor or pick ups if that ends up being the problem? The part # is 32900-11910 for the ignitor and 33110-11920 for the pickup.

 

[Guest]

Ok so it might be a signal wire then.

What does your meter do when you measure resistance?
Touching the leads together should give you near 0. Could be a low battery in the meter.

You need an oscilloscope to see the output. The only thing you can do is measure resistance with a normal meter.

It should measure between 60 and 80 ohms between each pickup.
Measure with the ignitor disconnected between the Black/blue and brown for one side. black/blue and green/white for the other side.

check out page 148 of your manual. It has a test to trick the ignitor. It uses your meter to act like the pickup and makes which ever side you pick fire the plug.


You could use an ignitor from any 400 or 450 with mechanical advance. There is a dyna ignition that would work on it too. It's the size of your pickup plate and the whole firing system is in the plate.


You could swap the brown and green/white and see if that makes the left fire and not the right. That would tell you if the pickup is working or not. If nothing changes and the left still doesn't fire then it's the ignitor.

 

[hjacobmiller]

Update - should there be anything less than infinite resistance between the O/W wires and the cylinder head/engine?

I just realized that I have been referring to + and - and this is AC, not DC. Newbs... I swear....

Ok so it might be a signal wire then.

What does your meter do when you measure resistance?
Touching the leads together should give you near 0. Could be a low battery in the meter.

You need an oscilloscope to see the output. The only thing you can do is measure resistance with a normal meter.

It should measure between 60 and 80 ohms between each pickup.
Measure with the ignitor disconnected between the Black/blue and brown for one side. black/blue and green/white for the other side.

check out page 148 of your manual. It has a test to trick the ignitor. It uses your meter to act like the pickup and makes which ever side you pick fire the plug.


You could use an ignitor from any 400 or 450 with mechanical advance.

 

[Guest]

lol doesn't matter in this case AC/DC. Its just resistance we are measuring.

With the plug disconnected from the ignitor you should get infinite resistance from the frame or engine to any of the wires for the pickups.

What happens when you switch the two pickup wires and try it?

 

[hjacobmiller]

Ha I meant earlier when I was measuring the V between the wires coming to the coils.

Should I get infinite resistance between the O/W wire between the ignitor and the engine when the ignitor is unplugged? I am getting 2.4 ohms resistance which tells me there is a connection which I am guessing shouldn't be there. Could explain the V drop at the connectors at the coils, the left one specifically....

What do you mean switch the two pick up wires?

lol doesn't matter in this case AC/DC. Its just resistance we are measuring.

With the plug disconnected from the ignitor you should get infinite resistance from the frame or engine to any of the wires for the pickups.

What happens when you switch the two pickup wires and try it?

 

[Guest]

The wires coming from the pickup plate.

Swap the Brown and Green/white and that should make the opposite coil fire.

So if the right pickup is good and the left is bad, doing this will make the left fire and not the right.

That will tell you it is definitely the pickup that is bad. If nothing changes and the left still doesn't fire and the right still does fire then we keep troubleshooting.

You don't have a problem with the Orange/white wire.
All it does is supply power to the coils and to the ignitor and we know all 3 are getting power when the ignition is on.


If you disconnect the coils and the ignitor and turn the ignition off then you will get infinite resistance between the orange/white and ground.

 

[hjacobmiller]

I'm not getting infinite resistance between the O/W & ground but I see what you're saying.

I'll try the test on page 148 in a bit and switch the two as well.

The wires coming from the pickup plate.

Swap the Brown and Green/white and that should make the opposite coil fire.

So if the right pickup is good and the left is bad, doing this will make the left fire and not the right.

That will tell you it is definitely the pickup that is bad. If nothing changes and the left still doesn't fire and the right still does fire then we keep troubleshooting.

You don't have a problem with the Orange/white wire.
All it does is supply power to the coils and to the ignitor and we know all 3 are getting power when the ignition is on.


If you disconnect the coils and the ignitor and turn the ignition off then you will get infinite resistance between the orange/white and ground.

 

[Guest]

There might be some corrosion that would let some resistance show up but as long as its really high it's ok. If its in the M ohm range than its fine.