'83 GS850GL - Steering Head Bearings -- ?? How to KNOW if they need attention

[Wingsconsin]

My apologies if this is in the wrong forum section- but I was unsure of where to go with this post --

As I ride I feel a certain --'looseness' -- a wiggle when going over bumps or hard around a curve -
I don't know how to explain it any better than that ---
At first I thought it was a tire being cupped , or low on pressure --- not the case
Then I felt it may be suspension -- but I have done the front springs and rear shocks and all the associated parts

Exact mileage on the bike is really unknown -- somewhere around 40 to 45 K miles I surmise --

So I am wondering if maybe my steering head needs to be re-torqued or bearings replaced ?

How does one KNOW ?
Is there a 'test' of sorts to establish this prior to taking it apart ?

Your opinions are welcomed and appreciated --

 

[Nessism]

Too late now but the Technical forums is the place for technical questions. For something like this the General Maintenance forum would be appropriate.

Anyway, to check the bearings the first thing I'd do is put the bike on the center stand and then jack up the front of the bike to get the front wheel off the ground. When like this the front fork assembly should turn smoothly from stop to stop with no notchiness. Assuming it's okay, I'd put the bike back on it's own wheels and sit on the saddle. Then lock up the front brake and rock the bike back and forth, compressing the front suspension. You should fee no play which would indicate loose bearings. If there is a clunk and you can feel movement in the steering stem it's time to either tighten the preload nut or better yet, tear down the steering bearings and service the bearings. Actually, it's a good idea to preemptively service the bearings if you want to really do the job right. And while you are at it servicing the swingarm pivot bearings is advised as well. After the bearings are all well lubed tighten the preload until all the slack is gone. Don't over tighten, just remove the play.

Good luck

 

[Brendan W]

Get it up on the main stand and get someone on pillion to get the front wheel off the floor.
Take the bars and feel or even listen for a notchiness in the steering at or about straight ahead.
Now grab the front wheel and move it back and forth looking for any movement at all.

 

[Wingsconsin]

Too late now but the Technical forums is the place for technical questions. For something like this the General Maintenance forum would be appropriate.

Anyway, to check the bearings the first thing I'd do is put the bike on the center stand and then jack up the front of the bike to get the front wheel off the ground. When like this the front fork assembly should turn smoothly from stop to stop with no notchiness. Assuming it's okay, I'd put the bike back on it's own wheels and sit on the saddle. Then lock up the front brake and rock the bike back and forth, compressing the front suspension. You should fee no play which would indicate loose bearings. If there is a clunk and you can feel movement in the steering stem it's time to either tighten the preload nut or better yet, tear down the steering bearings and service the bearings. Actually, it's a good idea to preemptively service the bearings if you want to really do the job right. And while you are at it servicing the swingarm pivot bearings is advised as well. After the bearings are all well lubed tighten the preload until all the slack is gone. Don't over tighten, just remove the play.

Good luck

Truly sorry for the wrong placement -
I knew it was wrong -- but didn't know where to go with it --
Too bad we can't move it ..

Thanks for the reply - tonight I test

 

[Redman]

Carl.

THis might be one thing where, if you suspect it is loose, it probably is.

Ed description is good.
If clunks back and forth, it needs to be tightened.
Any noticheness in turning past center, it needs to be replaced because the bearings have worn dents into the races. (I got pictures, if you want.)

 

[Grimly]

Beware the most common mistake when adjusting the bearings. Overtightening them.
It's so incredibly easy to put a huge clamping force onto the bearings and if you don't back them off, they'll dent the races and that's game over. No coming back from that one.
Trick is to just tighten them enough and no more - good rule of thumb is the steering should fall easily to left or right with just a slight nudge.
However, there's one major thing in your favour - if they're slack at the moment, any slight adjustment is a good thing, and even if they don't end up being perfectly adjusted, they'll be better than they are now. Better to err on the side of slackness than too tight.
That's assuming they're the problem in the first place.

 

[Guest]

Steering head/neck bearings is an EXCELLENT DIY project. If you've never done it before plan on a saturday afternoon with no rushed time frame. You will need some tools that are not in a common tool box but I made my own drift, already had a dremel with a carbide cutting wheel and I bought a section of PVC pipe to drive on new bearing and race. I like All Balls brand for wheel and neck bearings.
https://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/all-balls-suzuki-gs-850g-79-83-steering-stem-bearing-kit/

 

[Wingsconsin]

Update ---

This weekend I had the chance to do some investigation --

I had the front wheel off the ground by using my lift to bring the front up -

I gently pushed the steering from full lock left to full lock right and back several times -- No notchiness

I had the wheel facing straight forward and let it sit there -- no 'fall' left nor right -

I grabbed the forks and wiggled them -- UP & DOWN / LEFT & RIGHT / FRONT & BACK -- no looseness that I can feel or hear.

I spun the wheel -- nothing evident

I returned the wheel to the pavement and bounced the suspension -- tight and responsive .

My only guess is that what I have been experiencing may be

1) needs a fork brace

2) my imagination (most likely)

3) insert your guess here

I think I will jut go for a ride

 

[Redman]

Carl, your main concern that started this is the unsteadiness going down the road and over bumps, which could bee the loose starring bearings, and you did the test for that (pushing wheel front and back).

you also tested for knotchness by turning bars from side to side,.... but I think that test needs to done with front wheel on ground so have weight pushing up onto bearing same as when going down road. If you did have the notchiness, you can feel it when turn bar past center. And what that symptom that causes at speed is it takes lot more steering (counter-steering) pressure to get any response and then that much pressure is too much so have to let off and then need more again and so on so causes wobble in curves... which was not your original complaint. But, anyway, do the notchyness test with front wheel on ground.

 

[Redman]

Actually there are two sets of bearings in the steering neck. The lower set are the ones take the upward force and weight of bike, and are more subject to developing the knotchness from bearing rollers denting the races. Which is why I suggest doing the not hness test with weight on the front end.

with wheel hanging are testing more the upper bearing.

 

[Grimly]

All you need is one good pothole to dent the bottom race.

 

[Wingsconsin]

Carl, your main concern that started this is the unsteadiness going down the road and over bumps, which could bee the loose starring bearings, and you did the test for that (pushing wheel front and back).

you also tested for knotchness by turning bars from side to side,.... but I think that test needs to done with front wheel on ground so have weight pushing up onto bearing same as when going down road. If you did have the notchiness, you can feel it when turn bar past center. And what that symptom that causes at speed is it takes lot more steering (counter-steering) pressure to get any response and then that much pressure is too much so have to let off and then need more again and so on so causes wobble in curves... which was not your original complaint. But, anyway, do the notchyness test with front wheel on ground.

Actually there are two sets of bearings in the steering neck. The lower set are the ones take the upward force and weight of bike, and are more subject to developing the knotchness from bearing rollers denting the races. Which is why I suggest doing the not hness test with weight on the front end.

with wheel hanging are testing more the upper bearing.

Today I am on the Goldwing for my commuting -
With temperatures in the low-50's this morning the Wing has better wind protection
But when I get home tonight I will conduct the weighted notchiness trial to see if I feel anything -
But I doubt I will --- I think it may be more combination worn tires and fork flex I am feeling -- :indecisiveness::confused-new:

 

[1948man]

I felt a lot of wiggle in my 1100GL during an evasive swerve (sleepy car driver changing lanes) and I'm about 200 lbs. If you're a little larger, it may just be the design of the bike you're feeling. A fork brace might be good if you can find one.

 

[bwringer]

Worn tires can cause weird stuff, true.


Unless things are horrible, this can be hard to diagnose. You usually honestly can't tell much with the weight off the bike unless the bearings are beyond awful. And even with some weight on the front wheel, it can be very hard to feel a notch with all the friction. One of these days I'd like to try something like putting the front tire on a lazy Susan to reduce friction and maybe enable feeling the bearing action a little better.

On some bikes, you can put the bike on the centerstand and bounce the front end. If it bounces twice, then the bearings are loose. Again, this may or may not be all that definitive on a GS. You also often hear normal rattles from the brakes, instruments, etc. that can cloud the issue.


Anyway, I've noticed one symptom of bad steering stem bearings that isn't often mentioned, but is pretty definitive.

Here's the test: When you're coming to a stop at a light or stop sign, does the bike feel kinda vague and does it seem to wander around just a bit as your speed approaches zero? Basically, if something is interfering ever so slightly with those tiny low-speed micro-corrections (especially when the pavement is a little uneven, as at most stoplights), it's almost certainly the steering stem bearings. This symptom seems to pop up pretty early, long before the other types of tests can tell you much.

Or, look at it this way: you don't know when the bearings were last replaced or greased, so why not go ahead and take care of them? Good quality tapered bearings will last a long, long time.

 

[Wingsconsin]

At this time I have decided to continue the ongoing test of the head bearings -

(keep riding while the season is on)

Once winter comes I will decide from the gathered information adn likely tackle this project before next year commences --

Or not ... If it seems fine enough I may just ride it ...

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful information and sage advice received -

 

[bwringer]

Good plan. Bad steering stem bearings are an annoyance, but not particularly dangerous.

I have a bearing race sitting on my workbench I preserved because it may represent a world record for the worst steering stem bearings of all time (I bet Steve has one of these lying around too; we'll have to compare sometime). Still, the bike was rideable.

 

[Redman]

THese from my GK in 2017 were bad enough that was noticeable when doing the test (wheel on ground) of turning handle bar and feeling for a catch at center. Was also noticeable at speed before a curve, took some effort to get steering response but then maybe got too much responce. Also notice at slow speed comming to a stop where need just a little bit steering input (situation Brian was mentioning) but was hard to make just a little steering.

THe lower outer race is in center, compared to new one on right.
THe one on the left, the lower inner was the one that took the most effort to remove. Can see where cut both with a dremel tool.

Picture of the same, during disassembly, earlier on in the project. Outer race still in place.

Looks to be bronze , but that is rust in what was remaining of the grease.