Alternator Rotor Chip

[tom203]

I have not done this (pull rotor) , but sounds similar to other machinery. Can you find deep drive socket (or pipe nipple) that will fit thru rotor and bear against crank end? this would act as extension to the bolt you need to use. Put a little torque on bolt, tap rotor LIGHTY with mallet, put a little more torque, etc.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Bump. I'm surprised that with all the experience rebuilding engines that no one has any pictures or tools that would fit for this.

That or I'm on permanent ignore

 

[TheCafeKid]

Go to the store and buy a bolt with the same thread and pitch as a swinger pivot bolt (I wanna say its 19mm but I cannot remember for sure. Maybe someone does) use a sacrificial socket or something to slip into the bolt hole on the end of the rotor (you need to take that bolt out first obviously) thread the new longer bolt in, it will press on the socket, which will push on the crank and lever the rotor off. Cinch. But it may require a leverage bar (long ratchet handle or breaker bar) and sometimes some heat.

 

[cowboyup3371]

That's the part I'm having an issue understanding Josh and Tom. Does that socket need to be the same diameter as the outer hole (14mm) or a tad less (13mm)? How deep am I talking about needing since I don't have any deep wells to use?

 

[TheCafeKid]

That's the part I'm having an issue understanding Josh and Tom. Does that socket need to be the same diameter as the outer hole (14mm) or a tad less (13mm)? How deep am I talking about needing since I don't have any deep wells to use?

You don't. The socket is just a tool to use to put pressure on the end of the crank. That way you're not pressing the bolt you're using as a lever into the crank and risk munging up the crank snout or threads etc. The socket needs to be small enough to fit down into the hole that you pull the crank end bolt from. Understand?

 

[cowboyup3371]

Not fully but I'll drop you a line later to talk more about it. From what I'm seeing on the replacement rotor, there's very little room in there unless the bolt holding everything in place that I already removed screws directly into the crank and not the rotor?

Thanks

 

[mike_of_bbg]

The socket would need to be as wide as possible to fit inside the outer threads, but not damage the inner ones on the crank (it should push against the flat end of the crank, not the threads). It needs to be short enough that you can at least get 3-4 threads of bolt in the outer threads before you need to apply force.

If you can find a bolt with threads long enough, you won't need the socket or any other aid for pushing. The swing arm bolt is the right size and thread pitch but doesn't have enough thread to reach the end of the crank. Hence the need for a socket or some other aid to get the pressure you need.

Look at the tool I posted the link to. It's basically just a long bolt sized 16mm x 1.5mm pitch. My local hardware store (real one, not Lowes/THD) didn't carry anything metric past 14mm...

 

[cowboyup3371]

I'll check again then Mike. The 16mm is too big (won't fit in outer hole) and the 14mm I found at the bike shop while returning the 16mm is the wrong pitch. I'll see what I can do about it tomorrow or Sat.

Thanks.

 

[TheCafeKid]

The socket would need to be as wide as possible to fit inside the outer threads, but not damage the inner ones on the crank (it should push against the flat end of the crank, not the threads). It needs to be short enough that you can at least get 3-4 threads of bolt in the outer threads before you need to apply force.

If you can find a bolt with threads long enough, you won't need the socket or any other aid for pushing. The swing arm bolt is the right size and thread pitch but doesn't have enough thread to reach the end of the crank. Hence the need for a socket or some other aid to get the pressure you need.

Look at the tool I posted the link to. It's basically just a long bolt sized 16mm x 1.5mm pitch. My local hardware store (real one, not Lowes/THD) didn't carry anything metric past 14mm...

Thanks Mike. Definitely a whole
Lotta more clearer than I was explaining it.

Basically scott, the socket is just used as a drift more or less, because of you use the swingarm pivot bolt as your puller the threads on it aren't long enough to do the job. But if you can find a 14X1.5 bolt with lots of thread you won't need the socket. You could even try to find some all thread rod and then just put two jam nuts on the end you'll crank on and that will work as well. And like I said you'll want some leverage. I used a 2' breaker bar and it worked well. But no matter what don't hit it with anything. Of course you're not worried about the rotor so much since you're replacing it, but you don't want to cause any accidental damage to the crank snout.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Perhaps a picture (OK, drawing) is worth 1,000 words? Please don't make fun of me, I'm an engineer, not an artist

Should have thought of a socket when I was doing that! Screwed up the crank the first time - but then that's what I was replacing. If you use a Craftsman socket just take it back to Sears and tell them you failed to get full satisfaction.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Okay, seems I goofed a little. The 14mm bolt I got from the motorcycle shop didn't work in the new rotor (wrong pitch) but is screwing into my old rotor (checked it real quick before leaving to go back into town) so I think I"ll be okay. I'll give it a shot Saturday and see how it works out.

Thank you both very much. Sorry for being such a pain; guess the news this morning really has me rattled.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Rotor is off, please tell me I'm okay

Rotor is off, please tell me I'm okay

This is the second time I'm posting this as the damn system screwed up on me the first time.

So after getting home this afternoon, I tried to take the rotor off. It's off now but I think I screwed up so I'm hoping you all can help me out here.

I screwed the 14mm the bike shop gave me and tried using the breaker bar with a socket but the shaft kept turning on me so I had my oldest hold the opposite end while I used a 15mm wrench on the bolt. After about 5 minutes or so of hammering and tightening nothing seemed to be moving so I remembered what you all said and grabbed a small socket to shove down in the hole (the only one that would fit). Finally, after what seemed to be another 10 minutes, the rotor fell off but I found the socket stuck inside the shaft. I got it out and still see threads but I'm not sure if I screwed things up worse for me.

Here are the pictures:

Putting the bolt in place:

It's in and bottomed out

The breaker bar I tried to use before swapping over to my wrench

It's out now but definitely torn up now. I never said I could hammer well. I thought the sprocket was supposed to come off with the rotor but it didn't. It stayed on the shaft but I could pull it off. Course whatever bearings those are inside easily fall out.

Socket is stuck in place. I grabbed an extension and wiggled it back out.

Here are the threads. There are still some in there and I screwed the one bolt back in but I'm hoping I didn't screw it up. ray:

Please please tell me I'm okay? If not, what are my options?

 

[TheCafeKid]

Good lord man! Yeah the socket needed to be big in diameter to sit on the shoulder of the end of the crank there. It's really hard to see in the pics (I'm not near a computer, using my phone) but if there's some thread left in there you can try coating the stock bolt threads in some valve lapping compound and running the bolt in and out a bunch to clean the threads back up. Or a tap would be better. If that's not gonna work you'll likely have to re-tap the threads in a slightly larger size. That looks like a bit of a mess there brother. Wish I could be there or have been there to help.

 

[cowboyup3371]

That was the only one that would fit down in there that I had.

THanks.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Oh and before you go to put it all back together, if you use the lapping compound make SURE you clean ALL of it off very very well. Lapping compound usually contains industrial grade diamond dust (it's like a diamond paste) or something like it that is much harder than steel and if it makes it's way into your motor in any great concentration it will do terrible things.

 

[cowboyup3371]

So I'm already looking to get this put back on (will clean the threads hopefully tomorrow or Monday) and re-read the service manual. When I finally removed the old rotor, the three round roller bearings and the sleeve in the second picture all fell out before I could see how they were set in there.

In the first picture, it looks like the only way I can get that bearing back in place. Is this correct? (Sorry for the quality of this picture).

According to the picture in the service manual, this "sleeve" looks to fit over the spring that should go in there. Is that right? Is there a specific slot it should fit into? (the old rotor has the spring, the new one does not).

Would it be easier to remove those allen bolts to put everything in place first? Any suggestions as to how to slide the new rotor back on without screwing anything up this time?

EDIT - Update: The service manual only shows the one but after reading my Clymers I see there are three of the springs. I'll be referring to the Clymers to get those back on (I didn't read it before I posted this). Thanks all and sorry for the trouble

 

[TheCafeKid]

Those are part of your starter sprague clutch. If i understand how these work, Those rollers grip the crank snout when the starter turns the primary gear. As the engine catches and the crank spins faster than the starter, the rollers let go. It's a one way system, as in it won't spin the opposite way. The springs (3 of each of those parts) go in first, then that little cap goes over the spring, and the roller goes in just as you have it. You should be able to get them in there without having to take the clutch off of the rotor if I remember correctly.
If you're missing anything, you prolly want to pull your oil pan and make sure they're not in there. Those clutches, at least on the bigger bikes sometimes fail as the engine will kick back against the starter clutch, and either break the springs and they'll fall out, or sometimes they get blasted through that thin sheet metal cover on the edges. Look close and if the edges are pooched out you might have an issue. Or better still take some nice pics of the assembly if you can, if you're not sure what to look for. Also search "starter clutch" or something here on the board for more info.
While you have it apart, check that the Allen bolts that hold the starter clutch to the rotor are nice and tight. Another problem is that these will sometimes shear.
I've not read about it being a big issue on the smaller displacement bikes, but it never hurts to check.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Scott, just as a matter of interest, the official Suzuki tool for this job (removal of rotor) is a slide hammer with a 14mm thread on it to screw into the rotor internal thread and then with the slide hammer action the rotor is hammered off the crank. This way there is no risk of damaging the thread in the end of the crank. I made my own and it worked fine and my rotor had Loctite on the taper as well as the bolt thread. Others will say this puts too much side load on the crank, but Mr Suzuki did not think so.

 

[tom203]

Scott, just as a matter of interest, the official Suzuki tool for this job (removal of rotor) is a slide hammer with a 14mm thread on it to screw into the rotor internal thread and then with the slide hammer action the rotor is hammered off the crank. This way there is no risk of damaging the thread in the end of the crank. I made my own and it worked fine and my rotor had Loctite on the taper as well as the bolt thread. Others will say this puts too much side load on the crank, but Mr Suzuki did not think so.

Well, maybe Mr. Suzuki wasn't worried about damaging crank bearings, but I sure would be and I'm a hammer mechanic.With a 30 yearold stuckon rotor, those hammer blows could destroy old bearings and leave you with more fun later.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Scott, just as a matter of interest, the official Suzuki tool for this job (removal of rotor) is a slide hammer with a 14mm thread on it to screw into the rotor internal thread and then with the slide hammer action the rotor is hammered off the crank. This way there is no risk of damaging the thread in the end of the crank. I made my own and it worked fine and my rotor had Loctite on the taper as well as the bolt thread. Others will say this puts too much side load on the crank, but Mr Suzuki did not think so.

You're right Don and there-in lied my problem. Nobody has one as that part is discontinued now (Alpha shows one but I'm being told they didn't). When I asked on here for one (see first few posts) no one had anything to help me so I did the best I could with what I could get.


Thanks Josh for the info. I looked more last night and found all three springs and caps so I'll work on getting those installed into the new rotor today if possible. I'll check the allen bolts like you suggested on the new one as well to ensure they are still tight; I can tell you after trying to get them off the old one, they wouldn't turn for me (using my T-Handle allen wrench).