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Any interest in a how-to for making LED turn signals?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sparkster
  • Start date Start date
S

Sparkster

Guest
I'm in the process of putting ammo cans on for side bags and as a result I realised that I no longer had rear turn signals. The previous ones were built into the Shoei boxes. Well as luck would have it (I thought) I have two rear turn signals sitting here as part of a lot I purchased used. It turned out, however, that the insides of one of them was pretty well rotted out so I set about turning it into a LED turn signal using 5 10mm amber LEDs. All that to say, does anyone think it would be helpful to anyone or worth the time to put together a tutorial on this?
Here's the before / after:
turn_signal.jpg
 
I would be interested in the info to use for constructing some low power consumption and bright running lights and possibly additional brake lights

Earl
 
Two quick replies this late at night must mean something. I'll get to work on the instructions later this week (after I finish mounting the ammo cans and signals!:-D )
 
Let there be light!

Let there be light!

Mr. Sparkster,

I'm always thinking about lighting upgrades for my bike. I'd love to see your ideas. Thank you for your efforts.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I'd love to see it. I've used single LEDs as warning lights on my HD, but I'd love to get LED arrays in place of the rears and indicators.
 
A certainly Yes! Where do you find the LEDs bright enough?


I'm in the process of putting ammo cans on for side bags and as a result I realised that I no longer had rear turn signals. The previous ones were built into the Shoei boxes. Well as luck would have it (I thought) I have two rear turn signals sitting here as part of a lot I purchased used. It turned out, however, that the insides of one of them was pretty well rotted out so I set about turning it into a LED turn signal using 5 10mm amber LEDs. All that to say, does anyone think it would be helpful to anyone or worth the time to put together a tutorial on this?
Here's the before / after:
 
A certainly Yes! Where do you find the LEDs bright enough?


And how do you know they're bright enough? I have a brother in the automotive lighting industry who actually designs LED signal and marker lights, and used to be an application engineer supporting LED sales to the OEMs. He's the closest thing I know to an expert on the subject. Apparently, a challenge in LED marker lights (apart from an efficient circuit that doesn't overheat) is designing a light that meets federal safety requirements for visibility. I don't know what those requirements are, but I think they have to do with light intensity and angles of visibility. I know he has commented that most aftermarket LED lights do not meet minimum guidelines. And I'm sure most of us want to surpass the minimums by a wide margin.

Should I see if I can get him to chime in on this thread? (He also has a GS 550 he should be taking care of...)
 
Bright LEDs are no problem at all. Just remember to use the same color LED as the lens that is over it (unless you are trying to acheive a special effect).

Super Bright LEDs. Individual LEDs. Scroll down to the Yellow section. About any of them are brighter than what you get at Radio Snack. If I was going to choose from these, I would get the 5000 mcd, 30 degree units.

Super Bright LEDs Module panels. Scroll down to the 1156/1157 series lamps. This is a square module that uses a standard bulb base that will fit your signal socket, then you can silicone the panel in place and put the yellow lens over it.

.
 
Should I see if I can get him to chime in on this thread? (He also has a GS 550 he should be taking care of...)

You raise a compelling point. I don't know what the federal regulations are on illumuniation to the rear and/or sides for a turn signal. I do know that each of the 5 LEDs I used are rated at 60,000 mcd and used in conjunction are decently bright.

As for circuitry and heat- there is no circuitry other than an in-line resistor for each and heat isn't much of a problem for a turn signal since you won't be using it for an extended time. Well... I might because I'm constantly forgetting to turn them off after a turn.
 
I was thinking of heat because of a conversation we had at the Detroit Auto show. Most of the concept cars had funky LED headlights (including one he helped on). He told me that nobody was actually putting them into production because LEDs that bright make too much heat. Even the show cars had large heat sinks, and they weren't nearly bright enough to drive on.

Anyhow, I'll shoot him an email and see if I can get him to chime in. He may need to correct me on a couple points anyway.
 
Led's

Led's

Sparkster, I would like to know all about the ammo boxes and how you are mounting them as well as the led signal lights.

Thanks for bringing the subject up!
Lee :-D
 
As the song says, "I'll be watching you".

Earl :-)


Two quick replies this late at night must mean something. I'll get to work on the instructions later this week (after I finish mounting the ammo cans and signals!:-D )
 
Sparkster, I would like to know all about the ammo boxes and how you are mounting them as well as the led signal lights.

Thanks for bringing the subject up!
Lee :-D

The ammo box question I can answer pretty quickly- it will be made from the same angle iron that I made the headlight bracket from as seen here:
beforeafter01.jpg

Mounting to the frame will be at the same points as the Shoei bags and, in fact, I will use the mounts from those as a guide for bending the iron at the appropriate angles. Why not just reuse the Shoei mounts you ask? Because angle iron just plain looks cool in a rat sort of way. (That and I may just end up selling the Shoei's to turn a buck for more upkeep)

And here is how I've decided to mount the signals to the boxes:
turnsignal.jpg


I think it'll look pretty tight when I'm done. I promise a fully detailed PDF when the deed is done.
 
Apparently, a challenge in LED marker lights (apart from an efficient circuit that doesn't overheat) is designing a light that meets federal safety requirements for visibility.
I think they have to do with light intensity and angles of visibility.

(He also has a GS 550 he should be taking care of...)

Brother Dogma is right, there are lots of federal requirements for turn signals as well as all the other lamps on any vehicle. (he is also right that I don't take good enough care of my GS)

To start with, federal requirements set the size of the illuminated area of the lamp. Since you are retrofitting the existing lamp, you are covered there as long as the whole lamp lights up like with the bulb.

You should also consider the color of the LEDs. Just using yellow LEDs is not necessarily right. Sometimes the right color is called amber. You need to get LEDs that are in the 590 nm dominant wavelength range give or take 5 nm. (if they are listed in peak wavelength, then steer for about 597 nm give or take 5 nm. Digi-key and Mouser and Newark and Farnell sell LEDs that are in the right color range. (you can probably find the right color at Radio Shack, but I haven't actually looked.

Now for the hard part. Depending on the type of lens your existing lamp has will determine what sort of LED you put behind it. Some lenses are designed to take the light from that skinny little filament of the bulb and spread it all over the road. LEDs don't make light in that same skinny strip, so it is diffcult to get things to work right. This lens type will often have ring shaped optics with lots of sharp edges trying to collect the light and spread it across the road. With this type of lens, you will have a tough time getting things right. Sometimes those LED bulb things will work OK in this situation, but I have yet to see one that really makes a nice looking lamp. (OK, so that is opinion) The alignment is difficult because they make a very large source compared to the filament of the bulb, so you need to bring them closer to the lens. There is a limit to how close you can get before you aren't filling the lens. There are times you just can't get things to work out with this type of lens. Essentially you will end up trying to put a single wide viewing angle LED in the center of those rings at about the same distance that the bulb filament was, but just a little closer. This adjustment is finicky and difficult, but can be done. I made a lamp once that filled the lens well, and made a decent pattern, but I didn't measure it to see if it was bright enough so I don't know if I made a legal lamp or not. Normally, this will take a high power LED that will need heat sinking and driver electronics.

Occasionally, the OEM lamp designer will chrome the inside of the lamp housing so it acts like a collimating reflector. (essentially makes all the light rays as close to parallel as possible when they hit the lens) This arrangement makes the lens design easier because they can use what is called a pillow optic. (a bunch of little pillows across the lens) If your lens is covered with pillow optics, things are looking up. You want to find LEDs with as narrow a viewing angle as possible to simulate those parallel rays as best you can. You will need to set the LEDS up in a package a good distance from the LENS but spread out enough to fill the lens with those near parallel rays. You need to put a little space between the lens and the LEDs and fill the housing with LEDs at the same time. So just getting the brightest LEDs and filling the housing could make too much light. The key here is to fill the housing with LEDS so the parallel rays fill the lens.

To test things out, it is best to keep one bulb lamp as a standard. Mount it on your bench in the same orientation as on the bike. Mount your attempt at an LED lamp next to it with maybe 6 inches between them. Light them both up and stand back about 30 to 50 feet. They should look about the same brightness at this distance. The next step is important, but is often overlooked in LED lamp retrofits. Walk to the left and the right at that same distance and continue to compare the brightness of the two lamps. The LED lamp should stay as bright as the bulb lamp as you walk to the sides. (up to a 30 degree angle, but if you can get out to 45 it is better) The wider the better, because this is visibilty for you intentions to turn. (we all know the importance of visibility on bikes) It may take a half dozen tries to get the LED lamp as bright as or brighter than the bulb lamp at all the viewing angles. Once you get it right, you can then change over your reference lamp to LEDs. If you have limited space, you can mount the lamps on a pivot and have an assistant rotate the lamps instead of you walking around them.

If you have a flat lens, putting several of the wide viewing angle LEDs (?60?) in there and a few of the narrower ones (?20?) could make for a decent lamp. This is easiest to figure out because if you need more light on the sides, you add wide viewing angle LEDs. If you need more light in the back, you add some of the narrower viewing angle LEDs. A flat lens is rare, so don't get your hopes up. 8)

To sum up, you need to get the right color, fill the lens with light, and make sure you get equivalent output at the back as well as the off angles. This isn't a guarantee that you will make a legal lamp, but police officers don't carry photometers to test light output. They just pull you over for what looks like a dim lamp if they want to give you a hard time looking for a larger infraction. The steps above will get light where you need it so others can see you, and making it the same brightness or a little brighter than the bulb will make sure you are in the right ballpark.

For a personal bike modification, getting them to legal numbers is not a requirement, you just need to get them equivalent in appearance. The problem comes in if you are making them for profit. (liability requires that you do your homework and get things tested to prove you are making a legal lamp, otherwise you are risking a lawsuit)

Sorry for the verbose post, this is a complex topic that requires a lot of 'splainin
 
Brother Dogma is right, there are lots of federal requirements for turn signals as well as all the other lamps on any vehicle. (he is also right that I don't take good enough care of my GS)
...
...
Sorry for the verbose post, this is a complex topic that requires a lot of 'splainin

WOW:shock:

Thanks very much for the well-informed contribution. Here's what I've found after reading your post; my LED's are in the ballpark, at least as quoted from the seller:
Specifications:
Material: InGaN
Emitting Colour: Amber
Lens Type: Water clear
Reverse Voltage: 5.0 V
DC Forward Voltage: Typical: 1.9 V Max: 2.3 V
Wavelength: 585nm-590nm
Luminous Intensity MCD: Min: 40,000 mcd Max: 60,000 mcd
DC Forward Current: 20mA
Viewing Angle: 12?5degree
Lead Soldering Temp: 260oC for 5 seconds
Intensely Bright

And I THINK the lens for these is what I can only describe as flat. It looks nice right now but I think I may add more LEDs after reading your post. Here's what it's looking like right now:

ledrt.jpg
 
Brother Dogma is right, there are lots of federal requirements for turn signals as well as all the other lamps on any vehicle. (he is also right that I don't take good enough care of my GS)
...............
Sorry for the verbose post, this is a complex topic that requires a lot of 'splainin

Not at all verbose. Everything you wrote matters.

This topic comes up often, and I believe that the main reasons are that there don't seem to be any good aftermarket LED lights for direct replacements for turn signals, brake lights and general decoration. The need for information will continue until someone designs and builds good LED replacement lights, and publishes his design, construction methods, sources and part numbers in a manner similar to the carb rebuild series, or to what Brian Wringer and Basscliff have on their web sites.
 
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