Any interest in a how-to for making LED turn signals?

[Kcwiro]

I wonder if you can post how much that cost you to make?... I have looked at other premade bulbs and am still 50/50 put so much in bike already and I am all for not wasting any excess on it... all that money in has to pay off one way or the other =)

 

[Sparkster]

Upon further consideration I don't think it's wise to put together the aforementioned how-to. I will put some pics and links up but let me go on record as stating that it will probably NOT meet the explained regulations. I feel comfortable that I'll be safe in the end but not comfortable enough to have a product anywhere close to what should be held up as though to say, "here! do this!" I always appreciate being educated by someone who knows, as opposed to those who pretend to know, so thanks biffington. I'd love to pick your brain over coffee sometime (I try to surround myself with smart people in the hopes that some of it might leak onto me).

And you're right about the light meters. The closest thing we cops carry for measuring light is the device that measures tint and not all agencies have those. Ours is too poor to buy them.

 

[Sparkster]

I wonder if you can post how much that cost you to make?... I have looked at other premade bulbs and am still 50/50 put so much in bike already and I am all for not wasting any excess on it... all that money in has to pay off one way or the other =)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/50X-...ryZ33713QQihZ022QQitemZ350023699337QQtcZphoto

$17 shipped for 50 LEDs, you might find fewer for cheaper
$20 for four used turn signals AND the headlight assembly (free if you're retrofitting your own existing ones)
$7-ish for a small sheet of plexi (I used this inside to mount the LEDs)
$7 for an electronic signal relay to replace the stock thermal relay that wouldn't trip with the LEDs attatched:

 

[Planecrazy]

Nice project, Sparkster, but my first thought looking at the pic was that the signals are sticking so far out from the bike that they might not last too long. You might want to reconsider their location and perhaps mount them behind the boxes rather than outboard. One advantage of mounting them behind is that you could then paint the backs of the boxes black and get better contrast when they're flashing.

Regards,

 

[Dogma]

Sorry for the verbose post, this is a complex topic that requires a lot of 'splainin

Thanks for putting that all together. I know how long it takes to compose a thing like that.

But of course this raises a couple questions (more, always more!). What is the correct color for a brake light, and what is appropriate modulation of the signal or brake lamps? I know the headlight modulator is a common bike mod, but what about a running light strobe on the tail? I have a small set of LEDs that strobe when my brake comes on. Would that kind of strobe be appropriate for the entire brake light or turn signal? I'm guessing anything that wouldn't be mistaken for emergency vehicles' signals should be allowed. Are there regulations that cover signal light modulation?

 

[Planecrazy]

Oh, one more thing ... I hope you've got new tires (at least the rear) on order ... yours looks from the pic to be well past needing replacement, Buddy! Remember, no matter how expensive new tires are you should consider them CHEAP insurance against disaster!!

When I first changed the tires on my 1100G (and went to Pirelli Sport Demons) it was literally as if I had replaced the bike with a brand new one! They were THAT much better than the hard old Dunlops I had been running. In my case the tires LOOKED fine but were very hard.

Ride Safe, and
Regards,

 

[Sparkster]

Oh, one more thing ... I hope you've got new tires (at least the rear) on order ... yours looks from the pic to be well past needing replacement, Buddy! Remember, no matter how expensive new tires are you should consider them CHEAP insurance against disaster!!

When I first changed the tires on my 1100G (and went to Pirelli Sport Demons) it was literally as if I had replaced the bike with a brand new one! They were THAT much better than the hard old Dunlops I had been running. In my case the tires LOOKED fine but were very hard.

Ride Safe, and
Regards,

Thanks for asking. When I bought the bike it came with a new rear tire. I'm waiting for warm weather to ride it to a shop and have it put on. I don't have the skillz for that, don't have a trailer, and don't feel confident riding a bike that big up a ramp into the bed of my little s10. But yeah, it's on the short list.

I have a small set of LEDs that strobe when my brake comes on. Would that kind of strobe be appropriate for the entire brake light or turn signal?

In Ohio most strobing or rotating lights are banned from civilian vehicles.

Ohio Revised Code 4513.17 C1 states:

Flashing lights are prohibited on motor vehicles, except as a means for indicating a right or a left turn, or in the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, or overtaking or passing. This prohibition does not apply to emergency vehicles, road service vehicles servicing or towing a disabled vehicle, traffic line stripers, snow plows, rural mail delivery vehicles, vehicles as provided in section 4513.182 of the Revised Code, department of transportation maintenance vehicles, funeral hearses, funeral escort vehicles, and similar equipment operated by the department or local authorities, which shall be equipped with and display, when used on a street or highway for the special purpose necessitating such lights, a flashing, oscillating, or rotating amber light, but shall not display a flashing, oscillating, or rotating light of any other color, nor to vehicles or machinery permitted by section 4513.11 of the Revised Code to have a flashing red light.

The exception noted in 4513.182 refers to vechicles transporting preschool children.

 

[Dogma]

In Ohio most strobing or rotating lights are banned from civilian vehicles.

Ohio Revised Code 4513.17 C1 states:


The exception noted in 4513.182 refers to vehicles transporting preschool children.

Interesting. So, strictly speaking, the headlight modulators are also banned. There seems to be a gap between law and enforcement where pulsing lights and the exhausts of certain V-twin bikes live...

 

[bakalorz]

I am also planning to convert to LED turn signals and brake lights.
I at some point found and read the FMVSS regs and I will (I believe) meet the regs.

I initially bought some of the 1157 and 1156 replacement bulbs of various types, but was not happy with any of them.
I eventually bought some replacement LED assemblies used on semi-trucks, and these seem to be bright enough and offer enough dispersion that I think they will increase visibility.
These are either 4 inch round or 2x6 ovals with a bunch (10 to 40 depending) of LEDs and a special driver circuit built in.
I bought them on e-bay for $10-20 each

I'll post more when I actually get anywhere with it.

By the way, re: the strobing lights ... there are some units you can buy that flash the brake lights 3 or 4 times initially when you hit the brakes, and then stay on solid ... I believe that is legal, and I intend to do it for my bike.

 

[Sparkster]

Interesting. So, strictly speaking, the headlight modulators are also banned. There seems to be a gap between law and enforcement where pulsing lights and the exhausts of certain V-twin bikes live...

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I tend to ignore bikers unless they are being stupid. Show me a wheely or some other dumb crap and I'll hook you up with numerous points on your license but other than that motorcycles don't exist when I'm in the uniform. The pulsing lights and the brake lights that flash a few times then stay lit don't bother be in slightest- it makes the rider safer and thats all that matters.

 

[Steve]

Interesting. So, strictly speaking, the headlight modulators are also banned.

NO....HEADLIGHT MODULATORS ARE NOT BANNED. :shock:

The distinction comes in how the different devices operate. The regulations that Sparkster mentioned all said something about "flashing", "strobing", "oscillating" or "rotating". "Flashing" is cycling the power ON and OFF, with the durations being approximately equal. "Strobing" is a very quick application of power, either with a xenon bulb or very bright LEDs. "Oscillating" is repeated alternating operation in a partial rotation. "Rotating" is continuous operation in a full circle.

A (properly designed) headlight modulator does NONE of those. According to what is required for proper modulation, the voltage to the headlight must never go below 16% of full operating voltage, and it must remain at full operating voltage for 50-70% of the time, AND it must cycle at 240 +/-40 cycles per minute. Since the headlight does NOT flash, it is not prohibited by the statutes above. 8-[ Besides, Federal Regulation FMVSS 108 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) (49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle headlight modulation systems in all 50 states provided they comply with the standards, and Title 49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108.

For brake light modulation, there does not appear to be any Federal or State agreement on whether they should be allowed or how they should work. However, many officers that I have asked about them seem to agree that, as long as not all of the brake lights flash, and, at some point they all remain steady, you will probably not be bothered. Some of the reasoning there is that if ALL of your brake lights go through a modulator and the modulator fails, do you have brake lights or not? They would prefer that some of your lights operate steady as normal.

Interesting sidebar, here. My city's police force has a Harley they use on patrol in favorable weather. It has an aftermarket LED tail/brake light with a built-in modulator. It is the only brake light, and it flashes for a few seconds then goes steady.

 

[Sparkster]

I concur about the headlight modulator. It pulses or fluctuates which is not mentioned in the ohio law.

 

[earlfor]

Federal law specifically approves of the use of motorcycle headlight modulators within specified parameters. Consequently, they are legal in every state.

Earl

 

[Pete Logan]

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I tend to ignore bikers unless they are being stupid. Show me a wheely or some other dumb crap and I'll hook you up with numerous points on your license but other than that motorcycles don't exist when I'm in the uniform. The pulsing lights and the brake lights that flash a few times then stay lit don't bother be in slightest- it makes the rider safer and thats all that matters.

Oh Lord - send me more policemen like this :-D:-D:-D

I mean policemen with a brain and the guts to use it.

 

[Dogma]

With my background, "oscillating" sounds like any kind of cyclical behavior, including flashing, strobing, pulsing, whatever. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[biffington]

brake lights that don't stay on

brake lights that don't stay on

I can say for sure that the regs require a solid on brake lamp. Emergency vehicles always get exceptions, so the aforementioned Harley is not a good example. As long as you have one lamp that comes on solid you are OK. The regs do have a little slack in them for taking some time to come on. Incandescant bulbs can take as much as a half second to come on. An LED can flash three or four noticable times in that half second. I suspect that is what those 'flash and then on' lamps are doing. Just my opinion, I have never actually measured one.

I agree with Sparkster, as long as it is obvious that you are not trying to be an emergency vehicle, it should be OK. (of course the laws don't bend for opinions unless it is the opinion of the enforcement officer) Auxiliary lights are not covered by any regs that I am aware of. Semi truck drivers often add lighting for decoration or conspicuity without problems as long as rear facing lamps are red and forward facing lamps are amber (yellow). Side facing lamps are normally amber. The only amber lights that are allowed facing backward are turn signals. Any other color lamp is not allowed as it would create confusion as to the direction the vehicle is moving. So you should be able to add lamps for conspicuity as long as you have that one main lamp that is meeting specs.

Dogma, I think those little flashy lights you have are a good thnig, and don't look at all like an emergency vehicle, so I would think you are fine with them. (unless you run into an officer that is not as clear minded as Sparkster)

 

[Dogma]

Dogma, I think those little flashy lights you have are a good thing, and don't look at all like an emergency vehicle, so I would think you are fine with them. (unless you run into an officer that is not as clear minded as Sparkster)

Well, I haven't found one that is unclear-minded yet. Well, there was that one from Detroit I met at a party, but that's another story. If I was going to get in trouble for equipment on the bike, I think the speedometer is first in line, since it reads low.

 

[Pete Logan]

I think the speedometer is first in line, since it reads low.

But once the officer has stopped you, how will he know, unless you tell him ?

"Oh I'm sorry I was doing 102, officer, but my speedo said I was only doing 75" :-D

Right up there along with "Thank you, officer. BTW, can you tell me how far it is to the nearest bar ?"

:-D:-D

 

[egent]

Has anyone used the pre-made LED's from this site?

http://www.motorcycle-leds.com/

If so, how do they stack up in the replacement area for our Suzuki GS's? I know on the web, they seem to list mostly lights for HD, but they do mention having some available for Suzuki as well as other manufacturers.

 

[Kcwiro]

I have the rectangular turn signals not the circular ones... I'm just trying to visualize how I would get the power to the plexie lights...that relay to get the LED to flash... common places those are placed?.. I'm sure I don't want it too exposed...Idealy I would try and keep the units swapable to easily switch back to standard bulbs if I so chose to. That was just a thought...with the plexie I'd think I could just cut it in a fasion to fit into my signal casing.

I pretty tech savy but electronics is something that still evades me... I just am not good at putting it all together...funny I know but me and electricity have had our shocking moments:-D

I have a diagram somewhere around here on how I make running lights on my bike but not sure what modification to the circuit I'd have to do for running lights with these since you mentioned them getting 'hot'...picture of step by step on this if I got for it I'm sure would help others...though I would treat it more of a 'this is what I did' your mileage may vary kind of approach...I'm sure mass produced kits would just be expensive as apposed to the DIY approach...common investment is time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/50X-...ryZ33713QQihZ022QQitemZ350023699337QQtcZphoto

$17 shipped for 50 LEDs, you might find fewer for cheaper
$20 for four used turn signals AND the headlight assembly (free if you're retrofitting your own existing ones)
$7-ish for a small sheet of plexi (I used this inside to mount the LEDs)
$7 for an electronic signal relay to replace the stock thermal relay that wouldn't trip with the LEDs attatched: