Back off 1/4 or no on head retorque

[KEITH KRAUSE]

What about a good old cheapo needle type torque wrench Keith??

Yup. The older and cheaper it is the more accurate it is.
Run over 'em with your truck. Use 'em as a breaker bar. They last forever.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The keys are: lube the treads, Use a recently calibrated torque wrench, increase the torque figure gradually ( someone said Ray does 10 ft lbs increments, I do too but reduce to 5 closer to the recommended torque setting)

I've never used or heard of this method of increasing the torque gradually. Excuse me if I don't understand but do you mean if the final torque is 30, you first set the wrench to 10 and torque, then 20 and torque, then 25 and torque...and finally set to 30 and torque? This makes the tool operate more accurately?

 

[Nessism]

I've never used or heard of this method of increasing the torque gradually. Excuse me if I don't understand but do you mean if the final torque is 30, you first set the wrench to 10 and torque, then 20 and torque, then 25 and torque...and finally set to 30 and torque? This makes the tool operate more accurately?

Tightening in stages is common practice for cylinder heads. Suzuki doesn't mention this is the service manual though (for the GS1000 anyway).

 

[Skateguy50]

This thread is exactly why I was afraid of getting into replacing my gaskets so hard to get one answer for things like this. I also didnt want to pay $1000 for engine work on a $400 ride. Anyways I will check my shims in the spring and retorque my head gasket and see how it settled with about 1k miles put on since I did the gaskets.

 

[doctorgonzo]

This thread is exactly why I was afraid of getting into replacing my gaskets so hard to get one answer for things like this. I also didnt want to pay $1000 for engine work on a $400 ride. Anyways I will check my shims in the spring and retorque my head gasket and see how it settled with about 1k miles put on since I did the gaskets.

Ha, I'm about the put $3000 to $4000 dollars in a bike I bought for $400, but then I'm not too bright.

 

[Dogma]

This thread is exactly why I was afraid of getting into replacing my gaskets so hard to get one answer for things like this. I also didnt want to pay $1000 for engine work on a $400 ride. Anyways I will check my shims in the spring and retorque my head gasket and see how it settled with about 1k miles put on since I did the gaskets.

One could wonder about how hard it is to get it wrong with people doing it so many different ways. At least on these engines, anyway.

 

[Skateguy50]

well i read a lot like on this thread, then took that all with a grain of salt and tried to do what the book said to do and use the other info as reference when I didnt get what the book said exactly.

Good thing is I can always do the gaskets again if I messed up

 

[madjack57754]

Always thought that white was the absence of color and black was all colors inclusive.
To throw a twist into all of this discussion, back in my younger days I worked on a big name Top Fuel Dragster team. We would torque rod bolts to a set value, then measured fastener stretch to determine when to replace the fastener as predictive maintenance. Fatigue was the enemy of horsepower. Equal clamping force is the goal and anything that prevents equal clamping needed to be eliminated. Spectacular explosions are the result of failure at that level of competition

 

[Agemax]

Always thought that white was the absence of color and black was all colors inclusive.
To throw a twist into all of this discussion, back in my younger days I worked on a big name Top Fuel Dragster team. We would torque rod bolts to a set value, then measured fastener stretch to determine when to replace the fastener as predictive maintenance. Fatigue was the enemy of horsepower. Equal clamping force is the goal and anything that prevents equal clamping needed to be eliminated. Spectacular explosions are the result of failure at that level of competition

like this you mean, 6 rods 7 pistons, a crank, head and block. gone in 1 second

 

[posplayr]

Always thought that white was the absence of color and black was all colors inclusive.

Close but 180 out. All colors mix to form white light. Black is the absence of light. That is why there are all these threads of concern with Black motors absorbing all the white light energy and getting hotter. (like a black item in the sun). Or a Black hole s something that pulls all the light toward it not letting you "see it"

To throw a twist into all of this discussion, back in my younger days I worked on a big name Top Fuel Dragster team. We would torque rod bolts to a set value, then measured fastener stretch to determine when to replace the fastener as predictive maintenance. Fatigue was the enemy of horsepower. Equal clamping force is the goal and anything that prevents equal clamping needed to be eliminated. Spectacular explosions are the result of failure at that level of competition

I spoke to one of the guys at work about proper torquing and he mentioned how bolts are torqued on aircraft. The bolt is stretched to a prescribed tension, and then screwed into the thread until it just touched the surface and was then let go. In that was they were able to precisely control the bolt tension without much regard for the friction which can throw off the measurement no matter how good your wrench is.

He also mentioned that Mecedes had a procedure which was similar in that it prescribed tightening until the bolt was just against the surface and then tightening a prescribed rotation. These techniques tend to work better with more stretchy bolts (either thinner or longer) so that a 50 ft-lbs toque relates to going from 0 to 90 deg or rotation on a bolt that was just at the finger tight condition. This required special bolts with known stretch to tension characteristics.

For the Newbie, most of this discussion can be ignored for a stock bike if you just follow the torquing sequence in the manual and do it is a 2-3 steps. Back off on the retorque and try to be consistent.

 

[Guest]

Close but 180 out. All colors mix to form white light. Black is the absence of light. That is why there are all these threads of concern with Black motors absorbing all the white light energy and getting hotter. (like a black item in the sun). Or a Black hole s something that pulls all the light toward it not letting you "see it"




I spoke to one of the guys at work about proper torquing and he mentioned how bolts are torqued on aircraft. The bolt is stretched to a prescribed tension, and then screwed into the thread until it just touched the surface and was then let go. In that was they were able to precisely control the bolt tension without much regard for the friction which can throw off the measurement no matter how good your wrench is.

He also mentioned that Mecedes had a procedure which was similar in that it prescribed tightening until the bolt was just against the surface and then tightening a prescribed rotation. These techniques tend to work better with more stretchy bolts (either thinner or longer) so that a 50 ft-lbs toque relates to going from 0 to 90 deg or rotation on a bolt that was just at the finger tight condition. This required special bolts with known stretch to tension characteristics.

For the Newbie, most of this discussion can be ignored for a stock bike if you just follow the torquing sequence in the manual and do it is a 2-3 steps. Back off on the retorque and try to be consistent.

How does Cometic advise?

 

[posplayr]

How does Cometic advise?

Need plenty of eye shadow and lipstick so that it remains very "pretty".

You know we gotta keep our pigs "pretty"

 

[49er]

I've never used or heard of this method of increasing the torque gradually. Excuse me if I don't understand but do you mean if the final torque is 30, you first set the wrench to 10 and torque, then 20 and torque, then 25 and torque...and finally set to 30 and torque? This makes the tool operate more accurately?

Keith, the reason you go up in gradual increments is to avoid crushing the gasket unevenly. This is probably more important to avoid doing when using composite gaskets with steel rings around the bores. Also, if you torque the center studs straight up to 30ft lbs, you are stressing the head, forcing it to bend slightly.

Its not just recommended for cylinder heads. This system is used when tightening up flanges up on steam pipes and many other engineering applications.

Marking the nut with a felt pen and rotating it a set distance (ie 3/4 turn after lightly seated) is only recommended on joints with good surface integrity and metal gaskets. IMO, it is ideal on applications where torque requirement figures are 100 ft lbs and above.

 

[Agemax]

cometic do not advise re torquing. they say it is not necessary

 

[Guest]

cometic do not advise re torquing. they say it is not necessary

Do you agree?
If it already leaks like a sieve on the first tourque what's next?

 

[posplayr]

Do you agree?
If it already leaks like a sieve on the first tourque what's next?

Wall art

 

[Agemax]

Do you agree?
If it already leaks like a sieve on the first tourque what's next?

then you either havent torqued it correctly or your head is warped :-k

 

[Guest]

then you either havent torqued it correctly or your head is warped :-k

You would think but we had the two Bozo's on the job.
All parts were machined and were tourqued properly.
Bad tooling on the MLS GS1100 gaskets at Cometic.
SSSHHHHHH :-$

 

[Agemax]

You would think but we had the two Bozo's on the job.
All parts were machined and were tourqued properly.
Bad tooling on the MLS GS1100 gaskets at Cometic.
SSSHHHHHH :-$

nothing wrong with my cometic gasket. torqued once at rebuild and not touched since

 

[posplayr]

nothing wrong with my cometic gasket. torqued once at rebuild and not touched since

Probably only 16V 1100 cylinder oil passage pattern