battery damaged by starter failure??

[MaximSys]

Hi guys,

2 - 3 months ago, I wanted to (cold) start my GS850, pushed the button, engine turned over fluently but did not start yet.
So I opened the choke, wanted to start again, pushed the button, "nothing"... just a click.

At first I thought I'd check the battery voltage: 12,... V (don't know the exact voltage anymore, but it's hooked up to the charger when not in use and should be full at all times)
Then I checked that I did hear a click from the solenoid, and it did click.
Then I checked the starter motor and noticed that it was completely *@%^$*@%^$*@%^$*@%^$ed inside... It was worn out and beyond repair.

So I sourced another starter, received it yesterday, installed it, pushed the start button, "nothing"... :crushed: just the click again.
When hooked up to my car battery, the starter runs smooth though...

It seems to be a faulty battery now, but it still has 12,3V although the voltage drops to 10-ish volts when just turning the key on... And the voltage between the (activated) solenoid and the frame is 9-ish V... Too low to turn over the starter I guess. It's not even moving a little. It probably can't provide the needed current anymore.

Is it possible that the battery somehow got damaged when the original starter motor cut out? Because the battery seemed to be fine before the starter gave up, and now it's a plastic box'o crap. I will replace it when the stores here in Belgium open up again, but I wanted to check with you, smart GS people, first to make sure I will not damage the new one!

thx! Maxim

 

[tom203]

You should avoid leaving a battery on a charger for long periods....not needed and can slowly kill them. do this quick test and report all 6 results on here

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...System-QUICK-TEST/page2&p=1272192#post1272192

 

[Cipher]

The starter was marginal and probably for a long time.
It is what killed your battery not the other way around.

 

[MaximSys]

I just ran a few tests (but did not try to start again with the dead battery and the carbs are off anyway). I don't have the best multi meter but it should at least give an indication.
These are the results:

Right after disconnecting the battery tender: 12,57V
After 5 min without turning on the ignition or anything: 12,52V
Right after turning on the ignition key the voltage dropped immediately to 11,20V and kept going down to 9,87V after 20s.
When turning on the lights it dropped even further to 6,72V.

I also measured the current draw when just turning the key on (without lights or anything): 0,73A
0,73A x 11,20V = 8,2W. I think this is a reasonable power draw for 3 little dash lights right? (oil P, side stand and neutral indicator lights)
I was a little surprised to see there also seemed to be a little current flowing without turning the key: 0,002A. What could this be? Or is it something not to worry about?

The R/R looks quite shiny compared to other components, making me believe that it has already been replaced by a PO.
When I just got the bike a year ago, I did test the R/R and it measured fine back then.
I will though measure it again when a new battery comes in and I've put my bike back together.

15 min after testing the battery voltage was back to 12,23V.

 

[Redman]

////////////quote
After 5 min without turning on the ignition or anything: 12,52V
Right after turning on the ignition key the voltage dropped immediately to 11,20V and kept going down to 9,87V after 20s.
////////////endquote

Should not drop that much. 8 watts of power draw (instrument lights) should not drop the volts that much, think of it as the battery is smaller than it should be. THink of it as an air compressor tank with a big tank verse a small tank, draw out a little bit of air and the pressure drops a lot so is a small tank.

Bad battery.

ANd no, the starter going bad didnt kill the battery. Actaully the starter going bad was easier on the battery in that it didnt draw as much current. But yah, did have to crank longer to get engine to start and in doing so drawed the battery down lower before started. Can be a problem if draw battery down, and then leave it there for weeks.

Bad battery. Replace battery.
And then do the quick check as stated in a previuos post.

Other point: You say you leave the charger on. Is it a maintainer type, has the full charge light/mode....?

 

[fastbysuzuki]

When hooked up to my car battery, the starter runs smooth though...
thx! Maxim

Connecting your bike to a car battery is not a good idea far to much current can damage the igniter and other stuff

 

[Big T]

Your battery is bad and your wiring harness and switches need cleaning

 

[cowboyup3371]

Connecting your bike to a car battery is not a good idea far to much current can damage the igniter and other stuff

Only if the car's engine is running when you do it; having the engine off and the two connected together is fine BUT DON'T START THE CAR

 

[bitzz]

Connecting your bike to a car battery is not a good idea far to much current can damage the igniter and other stuff

That's not the way it works

 

[bitzz]

Only if the car's engine is running when you do it; having the engine off and the two connected together is fine BUT DON'T START THE CAR

That's not the way it works either.
The running car's alternator can put about 100 amps.
The battery in that car can put out 1000 amps, all by itself without an alternator.

If anything is going to take out your charging system, it's the battery.
... but what in your mind is causing this HUGE draw on the boosting car, that is going to do all this damage? and how is having the car OFF going to mitigate that HUGE draw?
Electrical is not always intuitive.

 

[bitzz]

OP: Your battery is toast.
You toasted it by leaving it on a charger.
New battery, charge it BEFORE you install it, at no more than 10% of it's capacity.
Get an automatic charger, something like a tender, plug it in once a week.
Clean all the terminals, both ends.

 

[rphillips]

I've been looking for a "Tender" that turns completely off at full charge. I don't think they are out there, they all keep charging just at a very small amount, but never kick off completely. If you find one, please let me know.

 

[posplayr]

I've been looking for a "Tender" that turns completely off at full charge. I don't think they are out there, they all keep charging just at a very small amount, but never kick off completely. If you find one, please let me know.

Still looking for a charger that does not charge?

 

[Grimly]

I've been looking for a "Tender" that turns completely off at full charge. I don't think they are out there, they all keep charging just at a very small amount, but never kick off completely. If you find one, please let me know.

My Lidl chargers do that.
I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to, but they do.
Which is handy, because it means that when I forget they're on they don't do any damage.
I must check - I have four of them and not sure that behaviour is consistent across them all.

 

[rphillips]

Yep, still looking, both my 3 bank on-board charger & my newest charger in the garage turns completely off when batt. is completely charged. None of the "Tenders I've researched ever turn completely off. Sorry, I don't know what a Lidl charger is.

 

[MaximSys]

Yep, still looking, both my 3 bank on-board charger & my newest charger in the garage turns completely off when batt. is completely charged. None of the "Tenders I've researched ever turn completely off. Sorry, I don't know what a Lidl charger is.

I think he means "Lidl" the supermarket. They sell random tools from time to time :-D
Mine was a cheap one from "Aldi" (supermarket). I think it cost me like 15 euro's.... Guess I should've put down a bit more money for a decent one

 

[Redman]

.......
New battery, charge it BEFORE you install it, at no more than 10% of it's capacity.
.....

Capacity . . . voltage? cold cranking amp? amp hours? 48 month guarantee?

Typical battery we use, (YB14L-A2 1980 and after), are rated at 14 AmpHour. And is suggested to not use a charger rated any more than 1.5 amps.
A lot of the maintainer chargers are 1.25 amp, some are 1.0 amp, some are 3/4th amp.
And a lot of the little inexpensive chargers are similar rating.
How long to leave it on is yet another question.

Typical automotive chargers are 6 amp or 12 amp.
Now that doesnt mean "it charges at 12 amps", that means if the battery voltage is low enough that charger can put out that much. WHen the battery is charged up to full voltage the charger will be putting out much less but still too much when distribute that over the smaller area of the smaller batterys plates.
So dont use that sort of charger on your little m/c battery.

 

[rphillips]

Exactly why I want chargers, (maintainers), that turn themselves completely off when batt. is fully charged. Technology is there, & I want to use it. I just not finding it in a maintainer.

 

[Rijko]

I have my charger hooked up to a cheap Lidl timer clock.
Set it to 24 hours and it will be powered off.

 

[Grimly]

I have my charger hooked up to a cheap Lidl timer clock.
Set it to 24 hours and it will be powered off.

That's the other way to do it. I have a raft of stand-by old cellphones that are hooked up to a single multi-way electrical extension board that comes on once a day for 30 minutes and keeps their batteries topped up.
Been working well for years.