Being poactive with the Stator & R/R

[Scudder]

I have my 1980 gs850 up and running pretty well. Now I can start looking at things that need to be done other than the immediate (get it running right) things. I plan on taking the 850 on a long road trip over 5 days within the next year. At this point I've had no trouble with the original charging system. However, do you think it would be in my best interest to replace the stator and R/R before embarking on a long trip? Common sense (at least mine) says I should replace them, but I'd like to hear from some more experienced gs trippers. I don't want to spend the money unless absolutely necessary. Thanks.

Scudder

 

[TheCafeKid]

Put it this way:

I haven't been to a GS rally where someone wasn't carrying a spare stator, R/R and possibly a cover gasket (I've carried all three on various trips)

Even if yours are good, two things;
One, take care NOw of all of the connectors and such making sure they're clean and tight and in good order
Two, its never a bad idea to carry a spare....

 

[Scudder]

Thanks. That's the kind of advice I'm looking for. Now... do you have any recommendations for both a stator and R/R. I've seen several on ebay, but I'd like to know what you all use.

Scudder

 

[Pendulum]

I'd replace the R/R with a Honda unit and put a brand new stator in. Take your stock stuff and a gasket when you go on your trip, but the chances of needing it are realllly low.

 

[Nessism]

Most important thing is to rewire the charging system such that the stator feeds directly into the R/R, bypassing the crazy OEM wiring which sent one stator leg up to the head lamp switch. Also important is to reinforce your R/R ground scheme. Last thing is to consider upgrading your R/R to something more robust. I wouldn't change the stator if it's still working. Adding a system monitor wouldn't be a bad idea either, at least then you would know if a problem has occurred before your battery is dead leaving you stranded.

 

[Dogma]

If your charging system passes the test in the Stator Papers, clean and protect (dielectric grease) all your charging system connectors and all the grounds. Run a fused (15A) wire directly from the stator output to the battery's positive terminal to bypass a potentially problem splice in the harness. No need to replace parts that are working well. It will be fine for a 5 day trip, unless you spend it continuously above 6000rpm, all day long. Sustained high rpm days will eventually cook a stator, unless you have a series regulator. Look into Posplayer's posts on them. The Cycle Electric regulator he found mounts pretty easily under your battery box, and cannot fry a stator. The worst it will do is stop charging due to dirty connections. It costs roughly as much a spare stator and Honda r/r set. That said, clean charging connections, good wires, and a healthy charging system should be plenty reliable.

People carry spares to rallies because people inevitably leave for a rally without making sure the charging system is solid. They're the ones who had spares for me. Don't forget spare clutch and throttle cables...

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Clean connections and grounds are VERY important in charging system health. (Ask me how I know.) I've tried most stators (Electrosport, RMStator) and Rick's Electrics is my favorite based on its quality construction. I am currently running a Caltric (eBay seller) stator which is well-constructed and is coming up on a year of use. Hopefully I have my charging system clean enough for this one to last for more than a year or two.

As for r/r units, rather than any OEM-style parts, the best recommendation is to use a more robust FET unit from THIS LIST. Thanks to Mr. Matchless for compiling the list.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[bwringer]

The stator from any year GS500 is compatible with the 1980+ GS850. This can be a cheap way to get a high-quality, recently-manufactured stator if you've got time to haunt fleaBay for a bit.

My GS850G is wearing a stator from a 2001 GS500.

 

[cowboyup3371]

The stator from any year GS500 is compatible with the 1980+ GS850. This can be a cheap way to get a high-quality, recently-manufactured stator if you've got time to haunt fleaBay for a bit.

My GS850G is wearing a stator from a 2001 GS500.

Brian,
How did you figure this out? Is it as simple as comparing the part numbers between the two bikes or did you do something different?

 

[posplayr]

I have my 1980 gs850 up and running pretty well. Now I can start looking at things that need to be done other than the immediate (get it running right) things. I plan on taking the 850 on a long road trip over 5 days within the next year. At this point I've had no trouble with the original charging system. However, do you think it would be in my best interest to replace the stator and R/R before embarking on a long trip? Common sense (at least mine) says I should replace them, but I'd like to hear from some more experienced gs trippers. I don't want to spend the money unless absolutely necessary. Thanks.

Scudder

no absolutely nessesary but worth the piece of mind

Either get a Honda or the SERIES R/R (Compufire of Cycle Electric)

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=161397

 

[bwringer]

Brian,
How did you figure this out? Is it as simple as comparing the part numbers between the two bikes or did you do something different?

I used my x-ray vision, of course...





Nah, just look at the specs over on Electrosport -- they list some interchanges on their site:
http://www.electrosport.com/street-...suzuki-gs450-gs500e-gs550-gs650-gs750e-2.html

Even this list is not complete, but you can see how this process works. I believe there are some Kawasakis that are compatible with this stator as well. They list a separate part number for the 2001+ GS500, but the only real difference is the connector.


The thing to realize is that there are lots of different connectors out there, but there are only a few types of stators used in Suzukis. Since you'll be replacing the original craptastic bullet connectors anyway, the connectors are irrelevant -- all that matters is the body of the stator -- dimensions and number of poles.


This site has a cross-reference as well, and they list dimensions. You have to double-check, though -- the 1979 GS850 uses a 12 pole stator, and so the 18 pole stator is not compatible. This bit of information on this particular web site is incorrect.
http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/c...tator?osCsid=e392633d1732e50fa569dc71c8c38faf

 

[bwringer]

One other note -- the same thing applies to starters as well -- if you spend some quality time with the listings over at http://stockers.com and then do some cross-referencing in the Suzuki fiches, you'll find that there are only a few basic types of GS starters.

Whether you get a two or four brush starter in your bike is somewhat random (they came from different suppliers), but most are interchangeable.

Last fall, after delving deep into the fiches, I installed a starter from a 1979 GS1000E ($30 shipped on Fleabay) into a 1982 GS850...

 

[The_Flash]

After I read the stator papers I came away with the understanding that there is a cure for the infamous GS charging system. After checking my charging system it is still working correctly with the original stator and r/r. I thought that if I replaced the stock r/r with a new and improved r/r while I still have no problems that it would prevent any and all future problems with the charging system. Can your still smoke a stator or r/r even with good connections and a non-retarded r/r?

Also if I don't change any of the original charging system parts is it guaranteed to eventually fail? :-s

 

[1_v8_merc]

I'd just buy a quality R/R.
(maybe a stator if it's starting to look beat up)

A stator is just copper windings, nothing complicated.
A R/R contains diodes and crap that can fail easily, in my opinion.

The r/r is just more likely to fail and cause all kinds of problems, in my experiences.

 

[850 Combat]

I like to hard wire the four main R/R leads using solder and shrink. Also make sure, if your R/R is grounded the stock way, that you run a ground jumper from the starter solenoid ground to the battery. Overheated connectors are not your friend.

 

[bwringer]

After I read the stator papers I came away with the understanding that there is a cure for the infamous GS charging system. After checking my charging system it is still working correctly with the original stator and r/r. I thought that if I replaced the stock r/r with a new and improved r/r while I still have no problems that it would prevent any and all future problems with the charging system. Can your still smoke a stator or r/r even with good connections and a non-retarded r/r?

Also if I don't change any of the original charging system parts is it guaranteed to eventually fail? :-s

I installed a Honda R/R at about 40,000 miles, and the original stator on my GS850G made it to 102,000 miles. The Honda R/R is still fine.

I think all stators will eventually succumb to age -- after many years and thousands of heat cycles, the insulation and epoxy surrounding the windings will eventually get brittle and fail.

Stators are made with copper wire that is covered with a tough, clear plastic insulation (magnet wire). This is wound onto a laminated steel core, and then the windings are coated with epoxy to lock the windings into place.

As the rotor magnets spin around the stator, there's a significant amount of magnetic force trying to move the copper windings. If there's no epoxy, or if the windings are at all loose, this will cause tiny movements within the windings which will eventually rub through the insulation (causing a short between windings or to the core) or even fatigue and break the wire.

 

[robertbarr]

I like to hard wire the four main R/R leads using solder and shrink.

Perhaps it's my age showing, but I trust solder over any other type of connector. There's almost a catch-22 in that it's not generally feasible to undo a soldered connection if further repair is necessary, but further repair is far less likely if those connections are properly soldered to begin with.

Solder isn't exactly as permanent as the Constitution, anyhow; there's enough slack to cut off the soldered connections and start over, if I needed to.

I practice what I preach; I just got done installing a brand new Rick's into the thousand, even though the original had only 9k miles and the P.O. did a really good job of installing spade connectors with a new R/R. 31 years of age and heat / cooling is enough to introduce a bit of worry, of uncertainty, that I don't need when I'm 300 miles from safe harbor.

So now I have a spare that I'll never need, and those really good spade connectors were lopped to provide bare wire to be soldered.

And we're done.

 

[The_Flash]

Thanks for the response bwringer. So with good connections/grounds and an upgraded r/r I should be problem free with the exception of normal stator wear or unpredictable problem somewhere in the charging system.

Is an Electrosport regulator/rectifier still THE gold standard or is there a more reliable/higher quality alternative?

My bike only has 8,990 miles on it so I suspect the stock charging system will last a little longer before it self destructs but I'd like to catch it before it does.

 

[bwringer]

Thanks for the response bwringer. So with good connections/grounds and an upgraded r/r I should be problem free with the exception of normal stator wear or unpredictable problem somewhere in the charging system.

Is an Electrosport regulator/rectifier still THE gold standard or is there a more reliable/higher quality alternative?

My bike only has 8,990 miles on it so I suspect the stock charging system will last a little longer before it self destructs but I'd like to catch it before it does.

The Electrosport is actually near the bottom of the heap.

The Honda R/Rs are made by Shindengen, and these are very high quality units. I've installed several and never seen a problem.

Next up the ladder would be a MOSFET type R/R. If you search the forum, you'll find a list of compatible models if you want to source a used one, along with better explanations of what MOSFET means. (I'm fuzzy on the difference myself...) You can also find new MOSFET R/Rs for about the same prices as the Electrosports.

At the top of the heap would be switching regulators -- these tend to be more expensive, but the thinking is that they stress the wiring and the stator far less than the other types of R/Rs.