Bowl levels are the same, sooooo.....

[Hoomgar]

Scud,
Go ahead and keep your bike in the garage. That's where some would have you keep it until hell freezes over.

Jeez! :roll: Why don't you take it personal?
Scud is trying to figure out a problem that he himself brought up. He brought it up because he knows this shouldn't be happening.
He's made a good effort trying to fix it. It may get fixed, it may not. What to do is his decision.
He asked for help on fixing it. Not opinions on how to live with it.
Don't get sensitive when faced with facts or accuse others of giving advice for the purpose of keeping a guy off his bike.
I think much of my advice at this site has helped KEEP a lot of guys RIDING their bikes. 8)

What he said. If you don't have something constructive to contribute that may help solve the issue (which is what scud has aksed for) then please just stay out of the thread dood. Nothing personal, just don't comment if your going to stir shlt up. No one likes that. Please be respectful and don't do it Ace.

Thanks man.

 

[Scud]

Hi guys, just back from another short business trip.

Hey Ace.......why don't you stop chiming in on this post, there are plenty of qualified folks who are trying to help me. I look at who has a good track record in this forum for constructive and reasonable criticism and you do not.

I am sure that everyone will now be in a rush to help you when you really need it.

I will get back to the rest of you guys that ARE helping when I can.

Scud

 

[Scud]

Keith - I will check the petcock, I can say that I have had the tank off several times while trying to fix this problem and no gas leaks from it when I remove it (it is vacuum operated). Would this mean that the diaphragm is alright?

My bike is stock so the needles are non-adjustable. How exactly do you raise the needles then, I mean, how and where do you place the washers.

Yea, the mixture screw has no effect on RPM when I turn either two or three carb in and out from seated to four turns out.

gsbert - No, the threads are not cross threaded, but I will tighten a little more, I worry about stripping threads. When the plugs are new I know it kinda feels like they are going to strip while the crush washer crushes..anti seize.. like thread locker blue (serviceable)?

I will swap coil leads and see what happens.

I did install the larger mains they are 120.

Slides...atmospheric pressure..? huh.?? that is a new one..hmmm.. I do not have pods, I have the orginal stock airbox. What do you mean by top of slides getting atmospheric pressure?

Vacuum cleaner synch...hmm.. not sure I am up to that one. I may very well wind up sending you my carbs this winter if this keeps up. Thanks for the offer.

Thanks guys, I am back to her today sometime...hopefully.

Scud

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I agree with the original poster who mentioned the petcock could leak fuel into the vacuum line and cause #2 to be rich. This is fairly common. It's worth a check. One way to find out fast is to plug the vacuum port at #2 tight, then run the bike on prime. The dark plug would then lighten up very quickly if the petcock is a problem. However, the timing of this suddenly rich plug at #2 makes me think its something you did while you last worked on it. I mean, all your plugs looked lean, at least on the jet needle circuit, with #1 even more lean if I remember right? Now you have this dark plug problem added to things after you worked on it. :?
As for raising the needles, I hoped the pipe wouldn't make this necessary with the intake still stock. But it was lean before, correct? The pipe would certainly make things at least a little leaner. Sorry, because this topic is long, it makes it hard to remember whats been discussed.
I've never used shims to raise a jet needle. I've always used jet kits and their needles. But the shim(s) in this case would go under the needles e-clip. How much to raise is anybodys guess, unless someone here has experience with a situation like yours. I can guess, but I'd really need to see the plugs in person, or you can again describe just how lean they look. I don't think you'd need to raise them more than the equivalent of one full position on an adjustable needle, which would be about .045"? Like I said, if they're really white, the needles may have to be raised more than that. This would be a little unusual though, for just the pipe.
Your mixture screw operation is really strange. Especially when you have two cylinders burning near each end of the lean-to-rich spectrum but both mixture screws have little or no effect. K&N's website states if the best/highest rpm is achieved 3/4 turn out or less, you have a lean pilot jet or other lean condition.
Having no effect from seated to four turns out is obviously not right. A mixture screw MUST effect the rpm in a correctly running cylinder. It seems the deeper we get into this, the more things aren't right. This topic started with a lean condition at #1 cylinder and has progessed from there.
Sorry I'm not offering more help, but things aren't making sense.
Maybe we can re-list whats been checked off as a possible problem...briefly describe the performance as it sits now...another 1/3 and minimal throttle position plug reads would be nice...and then we can try to focus on what remaining things could cause these reads/performance and if you feel you could have made any mistakes with repair attempts such as the vacuum synch, etc.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

And Ace...I don't like seeing members get into it with each other. A ways back I must have said something that ticked you off and it sounded like you came back at me with a shot. So I said some more things.
I can understand where you're coming from with your input to this topic. Just riding the bike would be the easiest thing for sure, but since Scud keeps coming back for more punishment, you can be sure we'll administer. :lol:
All we can do is try. Peace!

 

[Scud]

Ace...my response was a knee jerk reaction to your 'hell freezes over' remark....well...it is October and soon enough it will freeze over here thus the reason for me to get this problem fixed even more .

I realize this is lengthy post, I will indeed Keith condense all that has happened (hopefully) and all I have done in order to shed some light on the problem at hand.

Bear with me, this may take some time. It is movie night at my house and my 4 and 8 year olds are waiting for me to join them for 'Because of Winn-Dixie'....fear not, I will not indulge or reveal anything with reagrds to the movie......I will be thinking of how to condense my bike problem however. :?

Scud...bring on the punishment. 8)

 

[DaveDanger]

Good Gawd Awlmighty! I just read this thing from first to last post and my eyes are bleeding! Scud, that last set of plug pics jumped at me and said "Petcock seeping fuel!" A suggestion on the method of bench setting the sync with a vacuum cleaner... I've had to use a shop vac that way before to run a set of aircraft flight instruments to track down a leak, and discovered a way to set that vacuum anywhere you want it. At some point in your hose hookup, insert a length of PVC pipe of appropriate diameter to accept your vac hose at each end, and drill about a dozen 1" diameter holes in the PVC like a flute, (intentional leaks). Turn on the vacuum and you should have very low vacuum at the end. Duct-Tape (Yeah!) up one hole at a time until you have the vacuum "pressure" you desire. Keep that "adapter" and put a personal part number on it as your special shop tool.

 

[gsBert]

wow! im glad im not the only whacko with a vaccum cleaner here...

my vacuum cleaner has a suction adjuster, but the pvc idea sounds seckseh...

im gonna take my bike for a spin this isntant... (you know the one thats never been jetted right) seems im somewhere between 12:1 and 18:1 on the mixture now, for it runs...

still keeping my fingers crossed for 14.7:1

keep us posted scud... by the way my money is on petcock as well, unless your float bowl is overflowing on #2...

 

[Scud]

I will indeed try the test where you disconnect the vacuum hose from the petcock and plug the end leading to the number two carb, switch to prime and take a ride. Currently it is raining and threatening snow so I may have to wait a couple of days.

What the heck....what's another $100.00 for a Pingel petcock...

Scud

 

[gsBert]

oh by the way scud: dont you dare use the blue loctite on your plugs....
what i meant by anti-seize is the cheap grey high-temp grease usually comes in a jar with a brush on the cap....

 

[DaveDanger]

ditto that remark on anti-seize scud... you don't want anything that seals the threads permanently, but something that lubricates them a bit so that they turn in and seat more firmly with the same amount of torque. I'm sure Loc-tite? makes a product, but it won't be called Thread Locker. Permatex and 3M both make great products also.. I use one by the product name of C5-A, but I'm danged right this second if I can think who makes it. Looks like a heavy copper powder in a thick oily base. I have yet to find anything on a turbocharged aircraft engine that will bake it off a bolt or stud. I put a small dollop on every spark plug just before I install it. Just make sure that its only on the threads, any brand. Anti-seize generally has a metallic base and will short the hot electrode as surely as a chunk of carbon.

 

[Scud]

Thanks Dave - but I am still taking them in and out frequently and figured that I would wait to do that when I have the jetting and other issues resolved.

gsBert - sorry... :? I now better then to loc-tite them in there..

I took her out for a twenty-five mile ride, pulled the plugs and all looked as if they were new....with the exception of number two...it looked perfect...light tan. I did switch coil leads from three to two and two to three before this ride.

I will tell you that I did, last spring, buy an Emgo replacement air filter, it seemed like a lighter duty filter (can almost see through the paper element!). I just put the OEM filter back in to see if maybe it would restrict the flow a little and make her run a little richer.

It is snowing to 6,400 feet, I live at 6,200 feet....not sure when I will get chance to ride again but will let you know what I find out.

Scud

 

[DaveDanger]

Scud, every time those plugs thread in and out is another opportunity for the threads to gall and seize. Frequent usage is exactly why I want anti-seize on my plug threads.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Scud, just to make sure, your latest plug reads are after you plugged the vacuum port at carb #2 and ran the bike on prime, correct? Nothing else was done?
If this test was done correctly and the dark #2 plug became a perfect tan, then this result would suggest the petcock is leaking through the vacuum tube. Most likely if you rode it even longer, the remainder of the previous soot build up would burn off and the plug would probably lighten more, though further lightening of the plug isn't guaranteed.
As for this part of your problems, you can probably accept that the petcock needs a new diaphragm/rebuild, but if you want to be 100% sure, test it one more time with the vacuum re-attached normally and the petcock turned to "on" again. Since this would be the only change, if the #2 plug darkens again, it's positively the petcock. I only mention this double check in case theres ANYTHING else that could have been done or happened to make that #2 plug lighten up to a tan color.
After rebuilding the petcock, you can then take some solid 1/3 throttle tests for a mile or two (if you can do this safely) and do what the plugs say to. Full throttle for the mains. Minimal throttle position to test the pilot circuit, say 35 mph in 4th gear/steady.
These three tests will tell you how the three jetting circuits are mixing. Even with todays cleaner burning fuels, you need to see at least a "grayish" color on the insulator, tan/gray even better.
By the way, anything you notice about the performance? "Cold-blooded"? After completely warmed up/hot and in neutral and idling correctly at close to 1,000/1,100 rpm, if you rev the motor do the rpms seem a little slow to return to that idle speed? Do you notice any surging or light hesitation, almost like driving into light wind gusts, at steady cruising speeds? With the bike hot and in a taller gear, say 4th or 5th going about 40 mph, if you opened the throttle at least 1/2 way or more going uphill, do you get ANY pinging? Pinging on a bike can be more subtle than the "marbles in a tin can" sound you get from a car. Sometimes it just sounds like a clicking sound, very fast. What average mpg are you getting?

 

[Scud]

Dave - thanks for the advice about the anti-seize, I will look into it.

Keith - Yes, the latest reults were with the vacuum tube plugged and on prime. I will do the '100% for sure' test once the snow melts off the road (should be this afternoon sometime hopefully).

As far as cold blooded and warmed up, no, the performance is the same. There is no hesitation or sluggish return to idle when revved. Idle returns to 1,100-1,200 (see below). The ride I took was up to Grand Targhee a ski resort so all of it is uphill with a few switchbacks. So when I was going 40 or so in 4th or 5th gear there was no hesitation, it pulled fine when I rolled on the throttle.

As far as pinging goes, I did not notice any if there was any, but if it is as subtle as you say then I need to listen closer next time, but it did not seem so.

I am averaging around 40 to 45 miles per gallon.

When I returned to my garage after the ride the idle was about 500 RPM higher then when I left. Does this tell you anything?

Scud

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

OK. Just trying to mention some symptoms of a lean mixture. You passed those questions, but the bike shouldn't pick up 500 rpms from cold to hot. I'm not positive what would be considered a good cut off point but about 100/200 rpm gain could be acceptable. Beyond that, in my opinion, this shows a lean mixture or an intake leak or mechanical problem such as sticking throttle plates, diaphragm/spring assembly or your mechanical advance unit is sticking a little with the heat build up.
A lean mixture effecting the idle quality that much isn't very common. An intake leak is the most common cause, followed by the other ideas.

 

[gsBert]

hey scud: hang in there...

youre almost done solving your problem... leaky petcock seems to richen plug 2 unless it wasnt in right...

speaking of plug chops, im gonna do some on my 1150 tomorrow, but i ran into a snag...

i can do the 1/8 aqnd 1/2 throttle for 10-15 second run easy enough (i got 3 sets of new plugs with me on the trip to make sure i get good reads).

but the full throttle run is gonna be real dangerous... i mean, think about it, full throttle for 15 seconds in fifth gear.... where on earth am i gonna find enough road to do that? and a place to pull over (clutch in and ignition off) to yank the plugs and look at them...

i have a straight level stretch of expressway i can try this on, but i'm pretty sure the authorities wil frown on the 260km/h sppeed i am sure to reach.... at least i installed a windshield on the bike so i wont get any helmet lift...

in any case, its been nice knowing you, if you never hear from me again, you'll know what happened....

i might also smarten up and go to see this guy who has a dyno in his sound insulated garage.... 60$ for 4 runs...

do you know anyone like that scud?

by the way, my offer to trade your 750 carbs for mine still stands you know... but i think your problem lies elsewhere...

if you do trace it to the carbs though, lets trade and while i have yours i will fix them. if you dont want them back, just keep mine...

my engine is a 1981 16v 750 with the stock carbs. i use a '82 1100 airbox (same) and chassis

 

[beby99]

I put a small dollop on every spark plug just before I install it. .

Hehehe.. :lol: Had to lookup what a dollop was:

Table of Uncommon Conversions

2 pinches = 1 bit
4 bits = 1 smidgen
2 smidgens = 1 dollop
3 dollops = 1 gaggle
1 gaggle = 2 glugs
2 glugs = 1 blanket
3 blankets = 1 smothering

Sorry

 

[DaveDanger]

Alright, now I'm beginning to wonder if my West Texas heritage has let me down. I also measure out some items in a "skosh". As in "Pull that Carb-set a skosh more on your side!". Didn't even see that one on your table of measures...

 

[beby99]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Between you and the Aussie's I'm going to need a
new dictionary :wink: