Brand new stator, Brand new R/R, still no charge

[ekabil]

Hi everyone,

1982 GS1100GL here,

I am having trouble getting the battery to charge. First the voltage on the battery was too high, so I changed the R/R with an electrosport. Then the voltage was too low, so I checked the stator and realized it was gone, so I replaced that. Electrosport stator. It works (80 AC volts on each leg at 5k RPM).

Still no charging. 12.5 at 5k rpm, 12.0 and falling at idle. In every step of this post, the bike required a jump to start by the way.

Then I rewired, per advice, to connect the stator directly to the R/R. And then connect the R/R directly to the battery (ground to neg, red to pos). I did that. So now there are two extra terminal connections on the battery, both from R/R. Still no charging!

Now, the ES stator has five wires coming off it, in case the R/R is a separate unit as it is in older bikes. What I did was just use one of each color of wire, which would give three wires - a yellow, a white, and a blue - to connect to stator. If anyone knows about ES stators in particular, did I do the right thing? Or do I have to splice the wires together?

Also, I checked the voltage between the regulator rectifier red wire and the wire I installed straight to the battery (which has a 30A fuse). The voltage there was about 6.5 volts at idle, going up to 8 volts at 5k rpm. Should this be the 13.5 volts I should expect at idle? (edit: would this be affected by a poor ground from the battery to the engine?)

It almost seems like the R/R is over regulating, I checked the resistance of the connections I made and they are all either 0 or like .02 ohms.

Still no charging! What else is there besides the stator and R/R? I made the charging circuit as simple as it could be. Even the battery is almost brand new, maybe two months old.

What else can I check to try and figure out whats wrong?

 

[tom203]

ekabil said ....."Now, the ES stator has five wires coming off it, in case the R/R is a separate unit as it is in older bikes. "

It does? a pic would be informative. Are three of these five wires all one color? like 3 white or 3 yellow? Which wires did you use to get 80 AC during that test?

 

[Steve]

In every step of this post, the bike required a jump to start by the way.

Sorry, but it sounds like your battery is toast, too.

.

 

[ekabil]

Battery is maybe two months old but keep in mind the bike has been unable to start on its own for almost a month so of course the battery isn't going to start the bike on its own. If I charge the battery fully outside the bike, it runs and starts fine until about an hour or two of riding, where it just doesn't have the juice to start again. This is because the battery isn't being charged and is slowly bleeding voltage.

I can get a pic later but yes there are five wires. Two yellow, two white, one blue. The two yellows are split from one wire and the two whites are split from one wire. So, the wires to be connected and tested are one of each color, corresponding to the three wires out of the oem stator regardless of color. Between each of these three wires was a voltage of about 85V at 5k rpm

 

[Nessism]

Stator seems fine. Either you wired the R/R wrong or it's toast.

To recap: hook up those stator wires direct into the R/R (one yellow, one white, and one blue), hook up the R/R power output (usually a red wire) direct to the + terminal of the battery with a fuse in-line, hook up the - to the battery or a solid frame point.

If the system is still not charging your new R/R is bad.

 

[ekabil]

What methods are there to test a RR besides diode.

Is there any value to measuring voltage between the RR output wire and the battery positive with the RR disconnected and the engine at idle? Shouldn't this read the 13 volts the stator should be putting out or does it not work that way.

Another thing about the battery, even if it was bad, once the bike is running the alternator should be sustaining a 13v ish potential across the terminals. From what I understand anyway. I mean, in theory if the stator and RR are working and bike is running do you even need a battery? The charging system provides enough voltage, more than the battery does anyway, but does it provide enough current to run the bike without a battery.

 

[allojohn]

Had a similar issue recently, new battery, R/R and stator. Charging was anemic. I found a short in the headlamp bucket. The hitachi connector from the ignition (key) was melted. Fixed that and my charging came right back.

 

[tom203]

The regulating portion of R/R is tricky to test without feeding it juice. You'd like to see about 13 volts at idle rising fairly quickly to 14 volts by 2000 rpm (headlight on).
The stator makes 3 phase AC - without the R/R to manage things, the battery won't be interested in the stator output, and without the R/R connected,stator output AC voltage could go above 20 volts- bad news.
A functionally charging system produces all the power the bike needs with a little leftover to recharge battery. I don't understand the purpose of these split wires, but it seems that your stator is producing but R/R is not.

 

[ekabil]

Yea the stator is fine, connections are fine, it's gotta be the RR. In case anyone is about to buy an electrosport RR because of the stator pages recommendation, maybe you should look into getting a Honda one first . This RR is brand new from them.

Edit: allojohn, in case you're wondering, my stator goes straight to the RR to battery to frame

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

If you r/r unit is a 5 wire part, then disregard the black wire to the brake light. Yours is probably a black wire to ground (instead of the green wire pictured here).

The above diagram is for a Honda (Shindengen) r/r unit, our favorite replacement for the lousy stock and OEM style parts.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Redman]

ekabill,

where are you located?

(maybe add that to your profile, goto UserCP)


.

 

[Redman]

......
.........
Also, I checked the voltage between the regulator rectifier red wire and the wire I installed straight to the battery (which has a 30A fuse). The voltage there was about 6.5 volts at idle, going up to 8 volts at 5k rpm. Should this be the 13.5 volts I should expect at idle? (edit: would this be affected by a poor ground from the battery to the engine?).....

Just to be sure I understand: You measured voltage from the R/R wire to the battery + wire, .... with them still connected?
And got a reading of 6.5 volts and 8 volts ...? That much voltage drop from the R/R+ to the Battery+ ?
I am not going to say anymore untill we verify things.


REative to charging, the ground to the engine is not that improtant (is important for the starter mnotor to run and maybe the ignition). WHat ground is important for charging system is the ground wire to the battery box which is where the R/R is mounted and R/R- usally connected. But you said you ran the R/R- straight to the battery- so even that ground wire isnt so imprtant for the charging. Will need the batery box grounded so the starter solenoid works.

.

 

[ekabil]

"Just to be sure I understand: You measured voltage from the R/R wire to the battery + wire, .... with them still connected?
And got a reading of 6.5 volts and 8 volts ...? That much voltage drop from the R/R+ to the Battery+ ?
I am not going to say anymore untill we verify things."

no redman, this was with the RR disconnected from battery but connected to stator. the voltage drop with the RR connected was like .04 or .06, but there were a lot of extra connections there to make it easier to connect and disconnect for easy testing

edit: I'm from SC! thanks for asking bud. Charleston area

Edit 2:
I went ahead and ordered a shindengen from ebay just because they are pretty cheap. SH541-12. However it has two grounds and two output wires - the ground I can just ground to different places but what should I do with the positives? Do I have to splice them together or could I just use one of them?

 

[tom203]

Make sure one of the R/R's grounds heads to battery negative. The two reds can be tied tougether and either put into existing connection to harness, or split off with one going to battery positive via 15 amp inline fuse and other into harness. Make sure you understand sense wire.

 

[ekabil]

I get the gist of the sense wire. I think there's a guide one BassCliff's site about it, if not theres plenty of information on it around here right?

 

[cableguy]

I havent seen that you've tested the r/r itself. POSPLAYER has an excellent write-up on checking r/r health. I think it's also on Basscliff's "little" site.

 

[ekabil]

how else can you test the R/R besides diode test, and then making sure its grounded and continuous to the battery, just out of curiosity?

I say just out of curiosity because I finally got mine working! The trick was to make good solid connections and don't wire the RR straight to the battery, I just hooked it in to where the original one would have gone, and all of a sudden Im getting 13-14 volts. So niceeeee. I swear I tried that before but hey if it works I'm not going to question it.



Edit: started a new thread with attempted diagnosis of starting issues

 

[ekabil]

Well today, after finally fixing the starting problem ( and after fixing the charging problem) the bike is no longer charging the battery. I checked the stator, and looks like there is a short. When I test for resistance between the legs of the stator and the frame I get values from 1-3. On all the legs. I made sure the wires weren't pinched as they wound through the starter area, took them out from around the starter and tested them, and still had a short.

I guess I'm going to look inside the case, but I don't know what to look for. Its a new electrosport stator. two weeks old. (new RR, new battery as well). How do I tell where the stator is messed up and shorting once its open?

 

[tom203]

Sure sounds like a poorly wound stator that shorted on itself - did you see this sad tale that I recently posted?


http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/MotorcyclePrep/statorfailure.htm

 

[Nessism]

Can a stator make 85 VAC on each leg yet be shorted to ground? Something doesn't seem right.