Break-in oil

[GSJim69]

When I was in mechanic school (aircraft not motorcyles) they taught us to use straight weight non-detergent oils during break-in. The difference is the lubricating and cleaning properties. The normal oil cleans and lubricates too well and prevents or slows down break-in. Basically, a lower quality oil is used that allows the wear to happen that is called break-in.

It has been a number of years ago. Buy, that is the way I remember it.

 

[Guest]

Most of the engine builders I know including myself (use term loosley) wipe the sleeves clean after the hone and install the rings dry.

 

[bonanzadave]

When I was in mechanic school (aircraft not motorcyles) they taught us to use straight weight non-detergent oils during break-in. The difference is the lubricating and cleaning properties. The normal oil cleans and lubricates too well and prevents or slows down break-in. Basically, a lower quality oil is used that allows the wear to happen that is called break-in.

It has been a number of years ago. Buy, that is the way I remember it.

Thats what Lycoming and Continental want you to believe. Some people dont believe it.

http://www.aviationtoday.com/am/repairstations/The-Mineral-Oil-Myth_564.html

 

[Nessism]

When I was in mechanic school (aircraft not motorcyles) they taught us to use straight weight non-detergent oils during break-in. The difference is the lubricating and cleaning properties. The normal oil cleans and lubricates too well and prevents or slows down break-in. Basically, a lower quality oil is used that allows the wear to happen that is called break-in.

It has been a number of years ago. Buy, that is the way I remember it.

Millions and millions of gasoline auto engines leave their respective factories each year with regular multi-weight oil in the crankcase and their rings seal up just fine. Lots of engines leave the factory with synthetic oil too, such as BMW's, and they seal up just fine too despite the urban legends about synthetic oil.

 

[ranger rick]

DO NOT INSTALL YOUR PISTONS AND RINGS DRY!!!!! you'll chew up your rings and jugs at fire up.all rebuild manuals will tell you to lube your cylinders,rings and piston before assembly.yes use assembly lube on your cams it provides a cushion for the tappets until the oil film builds up.(you can flatten a cam lobe real quick without that cushion), it takes several revolutions of the crank to get oil to the moving parts, so they need to be wet before startup.follow proper break in driving as described in your manual."ex" don't lug the engine,no sustained high rpm operation for the first 100 miles or so,vary engine and road speed during break in.brand new engines are run in(broke in) at the factory on test beds(dyno's) before installation so they don't require special oils.

 

[67fire]

DO NOT INSTALL YOUR PISTONS AND RINGS DRY!!!!! you'll chew up your rings and jugs at fire up.all rebuild manuals will tell you to lube your cylinders,rings and piston before assembly.yes use assembly lube on your cams it provides a cushion for the tappets until the oil film builds up.(you can flatten a cam lobe real quick without that cushion), it takes several revolutions of the crank to get oil to the moving parts, so they need to be wet before startup.follow proper break in driving as described in your manual."ex" don't lug the engine,no sustained high rpm operation for the first 100 miles or so,vary engine and road speed during break in.brand new engines are run in(broke in) at the factory on test beds(dyno's) before installation so they don't require special oils.

We have a winner!
As Ray and I build engines FOR A LIVING,... what the heck do we know???
Listen to all of the "EXPERTS"!
I never HAVE TO rebuild my engines every year.
It is your engine, best wishes.

Eric

 

[Suzuki_Don]

We have a winner!
As Ray and I build engines FOR A LIVING,... what the heck do we know???
Listen to all of the "EXPERTS"!
I never HAVE TO rebuild my engines every year.
It is your engine, best wishes.

Eric

Hi ERIC,

Would you mind terribly rewording your reply in ENGLISH this time please?

 

[Suzuki_Don]

How much zinc does the diesel oils have in them. The highest I can find here in OZ is 1200ppm.

 

[Nessism]

How much zinc does the diesel oils have in them. The highest I can find here in OZ is 1200ppm.

1200 is typical, but some like the T6 Rotella synthetic have about 1350. US market Castrol GTX in comparison has about 800 (as do most auto oils).

 

[rkjjeep]

Heed the advice of the people on here who build engines.

If you think you put it all back together right, just go get a brand name oil of the correct viscosity and put in a new filter.

Make sure the battery is in good shape, or jump it to a non running car.

Before you hook up the fuel line (so the carb bowls are dry) crank the engine four or five times (maybe 5 second burst each with ten seconds or so in between to cool starter). This will "fill" the oiling system and get a little oil on all the important parts.

Put maybe 10-15 miles on this oil and then do oil/filter change. Go another 100, do an oil and filter change.

Ride and enjoy.

 

[67fire]

Valvoline "Not for Street use" oils, have a much higher concentration. (available at NAPA)

Here is a small excerpt from a Porche site:

"Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives and switching to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants in their new low SAPS oils since Zn, P, and sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters. One such ZF dispersant/anti-wear additive is boron, which does not foul the catalysts in the particulate emissions filters or catalytic converters. For most owners, the reduction in longevity of a catalytic converter is a small price to pay considering the many thousands of dollars it costs to properly rebuild a Porsche engine. It is worth noting that most Porsches have lived the majority of their lives with high Zn and P oils as found in API SG-SJ oils as late as 2004, and we never hear of problems with their catalytic converters.

In addition to protecting emissions controls, there are many other design considerations in formulating engine lubricants, which include improving fuel economy and longer drain intervals. Many believe that the EPA has banned zinc and phosphorus in motor oils. This is not true. In response to modern engine design and longer emission control warranties which are required by the EPA, manufacturers have turned to reformulation of oils to do this, as well as to improve fuel economy by reducing fiction. High friction can result in areas with boundary lubrication or where high viscous friction forces and drag may occur with hydrodynamic lubrication in bearings. The use of friction modifiers, such as moly (there are many different species of Mo-based friction modifiers, help to reduce friction in metal-to-metal contact with the formation of tribofilms characterized with their glassy, slippery surfaces. Lower viscosity motor oils are key to increasing fuel economy by their reduction in drag where high viscous friction occurs in hydrodynamic lubrication. While lower viscosities improve fuel economy greatly, they also reduce the hydrodynamic film strength and high temperature high shear viscosity of the motor oil, factors both of which are key to protecting high performance engines, especially aircooled ones.

However, it is worth noting that these new API guidelines do not need apply to ?racing,? ?severe duty,? or any motor oils that do not carry an API ?starburst? seal or clearly state for off-road-use only. Motor oils meeting ?Energy Conserving I or II? standards should be avoided as well as those with an API SM or ILSAC GF-4 classifications. The European ACEA A3/B3 "mid-SAPS" classifications, which place a cap on P levels at 0.10-0.12% but allow for higher Zn levels, to be better in taking into consideration wear and engine longevity, setting much lower wear limits, while still limiting emissions and protecting emissions control devices. The current ACEA A3/B3 classifications require higher high-temperature high-shear (HTHS) viscosities, stay in grade sheer stability, and tighter limits on evaporative loss (noack volatility), high temperature oxidation, and piston varnish. This makes oils meeting these ACEA standards that much better for your Porsche, especially since wear limits are much more stringent for valve train wear, 1/6th to 1/4th the wear allowed in the sequences for API's newest SM or CJ-4 standards. Of particular interest is the upcoming ACEA E9 which will incorporate some of the improvements in the CJ-4 standard along with higher Zn and P, making these mid-SAPS oils an excellent choice for older legacy engines."

Might not be good for extended use as they might affect the wet clutch.
Honda's seem to be especially susceptible.
I have never had a problem with the Suzuki clutches though.

Eric


Link to article: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

 

[Ponderosa]

Oil wars....

Oil wars....

To avoid the oil wars here, I will only say what I do on break in, I lube cylinders with 10w non-detergent before assy..

I use a 10w oil, non-detergent, spin the engine without plugs and ensure solid oil pressure, install plugs, fire engine, no throttle, idle five minutes, hold at 2000 RPM five minutes, vary RPM five minutes. The engine will be rather warm at this point.. Shutdown, drain oil, check metal content, change filter, and oil to a 10-40w (no brand mentioned), ride it, don't over rev, or lug at any RPM.. 600 miles later change again, then ride it like you stole it...

 

[rapidray]

DO NOT INSTALL YOUR PISTONS AND RINGS DRY!!!!! you'll chew up your rings and jugs at fire up.,no sustained high rpm operation for the first 100 miles or so

EVERY engine I build I put together with the rings dry. I haven't had a single one chew up rings or cylinders yet! I also RPM the snot out of them after a 15 minute 2500 rpm cam break in period. Haven't had one fail or not get ring seal this way! In fact after the first hard runs I have less than 5% leakdown on my engines. Usually it's even less than 5%. I'm just curious if you get your info for the above statements from experience at building engines or just what someone "told" you? Also, at this point in time I am wondering about the validity of synthetic oils preventing ring seal during break in because I know that Porsche & Corvettes COME with Mobil 1 installed from the factories! As synthetic oils go, Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil! Ray.

 

[67fire]

Ray, rings dry and cylinders oiled down?
Isn't that in effect... wet?

Eric

 

[Nessism]

EVERY engine I build I put together with the rings dry. I haven't had a single one chew up rings or cylinders yet! I also RPM the snot out of them after a 15 minute 2500 rpm cam break in period. Haven't had one fail or not get ring seal this way! In fact after the first hard runs I have less than 5% leakdown on my engines. Usually it's even less than 5%. I'm just curious if you get your info for the above statements from experience at building engines or just what someone "told" you? Also, at this point in time I am wondering about the validity of synthetic oils preventing ring seal during break in because I know that Porsche & Corvettes COME with Mobil 1 installed from the factories! As synthetic oils go, Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil! Ray.

Hey Ray,
Wondering where you are getting this stuff about "Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil"? Is this something you gained though experience or something someone "told" you?

 

[rapidray]

Sorry Ed, it was a "bearing load test" video done by an unbiased test team. They tested a bunch of different oils that are "supposed" to be good oils. I will try to find a link to the video. Mobil 1 did NOT test as well as some thought it would. Neither did Motul! Eric, dry rings AND cylinders. Ray.

 

[Ponderosa]

Now?

Now?

I guess I may as well join the oil war, nothing better to do...

I would go with Amsoil in a synthetic, although Royal Purple is good also, except for their high moly levels, which cause a tad of sludge.. Mobil one is OK, if you cannot find anything else... For these old GS's I would stick to conventional oil, Castrol 10-40, all depending on level of performance and age... JMHO, everybody has opinions, they are just like a arseholes.. Light the fire.. Testing shows my choice of Amsoil superior...

 

[Guest]

As synthetic oils go, Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil! Ray.

Hey Ray,
Wondering where you are getting this stuff about "Mobil 1 is NOT that great of an oil"? Is this something you gained though experience or something someone "told" you?

Not looking to get into any deep oil debates here, but like Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1 is often looked down upon by manufacturers and consumers of 'true' synthetic (made from synthetic base stock) lubricants. After Castrol came out victorious from the litigation enabling them to define their super-refined dino oil as synthetic, it is believed that Mobil 1 also changed their formulation (AFAIK, the company has refused to confirm or deny this), abandoning the use of expensive synthetic base for the cheaper alternative. The N. American Castrol Syntec cannot be sold in Europe as a synthetic, as their definition of synthetic oil is not the same as the new loose American one....not sure if Mobil 1's formulation is the same for both continents, but a quick look at a container will reveal that....if it specifically states "Not for sale in Europe", it's a safe bet it isn't.
Tony.

 

[rapidray]

Ponderosa, I use Castrol GTX 20/50 in my dragbikes, but I change it every weekend I run the bikes. I also agree with you on the Amsoil & the Royal Purple. The Royal Purple tested the best on the bearing load test I referred to above! I didn't realize it is high in Moly content though. For you 2 stroke guys out there, Amsoil has a full synthetic 2 stroke oil that I run at 100 to 1 & it makes a TON of power with absolutely NO wear on parts! As long as you are jetted correctly anyway, but if you weren't, you couldn't blame parts failures on the oil! Ray.

 

[rapidray]

Good info, Tony! Ray.