Clutch Help

[Anonymous]

Hey guys,
The bike is running, sorta. I need to get the clutch to work, and I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I took the little cover off and loosened the bolt. Backed the screw out a little bit then turned it in until it resisted, then backed off about 1/2 a turn and tried to tighten the bolt, how tight do that nut get? If I tighten it too much it seems like the part doesn't turn right.

After I get that done, I go right above it and start backing the nut out, keep backing, and backing and backing, I haven't gotten it so far out that it's come out yet, but pretty close I think. So that one's supposed to come out until the clutch handle is fairly snug right, 4mm of play or something? Then just tighten up the nuts on the handle and away we go right? I can't get it to work that easy though. Am I doing something wrong, any hints? Is my cable too long/stretched? It's the same cable from last season, and though I had to do some adjustment, it worked well enough then.

Help please!

 

[earlfor]

Re: Clutch Help

Hey guys,
The bike is running, sorta. I need to get the clutch to work, and I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I took the little cover off and loosened the bolt. Backed the screw out a little bit then turned it in until it resisted, then backed off about 1/2 a turn and tried to tighten the bolt, how tight do that nut get? If I tighten it too much it seems like the part doesn't turn right.

(************** You are correct, loosen the jamb nut and turn in the screw until you feel a slight resistance, then back off the screw until it has no resistance at all. Hold screw setting and snug down the lock/jamb nut. The jamb nut is tight enough with about 1 lb of torque, as all you are tightening is the screw setting. This proceedure sets the end gap on the shift shaft/pushrod.)************




After I get that done, I go right above it and start backing the nut out, keep backing, and backing and backing, I haven't gotten it so far out that it's come out yet, but pretty close I think. So that one's supposed to come out until the clutch handle is fairly snug right, 4mm of play or something? Then just tighten up the nuts on the handle and away we go right? I can't get it to work that easy though. Am I doing something wrong, any hints? Is my cable too long/stretched? It's the same cable from last season, and though I had to do some adjustment, it worked well enough then.

************( on top of your transmission..........where the clutch cable enters, under a rubber cap, you will find a barrel and adjuster nut. There is also a 2nd barrel and adjuster nut on the handlebar clutch lever. Set the one on the transmission until it is almost all the way in. Set the one on the handlebars until it is almost all the way int. Going back and forth between them adjust both out about equally a little bit. Pull the clutch lever in until you feel it start to resist (activate the clutch) Keep checking the clutch lever resistance and adjusting the two barrels until there is about 1/8" of free play between the clutch lever and the handlebar housing. There must be some free play so the clutch is completely engaged when the clutch lever is released, but the amount is not critical an can be adjusted to match your natural reach or grip. (whatever is comfortable to you)

Earl

Help please!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Earl, it seems you're always one of the first to offer some advice to my problems, can I just hire you to live here and work on my bike? And by hire, it's a voluntary type thing, and you have to find your own place to live, but I'll make you coffee whenever you do work on the bike, or buy you beer, your choice. Anyways, thanks, I'll try that, but it sounds pretty much like what I did last night, maybe I just didn't take the adjusters out far enough. You'll hear from me if I still can't get it.

 

[Hoomgar]

Earl is a God send to the GSR Barry. His years of experience and knowledge that he freely shares has helped many of us get things fixed and none working bikes running.

I am thinking that if he got a buck for every time one of his tips helped someone he could buy himself a new bike

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're right about the dollar thing Hoomgar, however I think my problem may go beyond clutch adjustment, how would I know if my clutch is gone? I'm leaning in that direction now. Is there anyway I can remove the cover and activate the clutch by hand just to make sure it does work? I think I need a new clutch cable too , so I'll get one of those, but not until I find out if the clutch is good for sure. Any suggestions guys(guys in the non-gender specific way, I know there's girls out there too ) Thanks!

 

[earlfor]

When the clutch linings are worn out, the clutch will slip even though fully engaged and you will hear rpm increase, but there will be reduced acceleration The only way to check the clutch for wear is to remove the right side engine cover, take the clutch linings out of the basket and measure them for thickness. It is non uncommon for an old clutch cable to have strands broken in the cable housing and consequently stretch beyond the length your barrel adjusters can account for. I would replace the clutch cable first as they are only about $12-$14.

Earl

Thanks Earl, it seems you're always one of the first to offer some advice to my problems, can I just hire you to live here and work on my bike? And by hire, it's a voluntary type thing, and you have to find your own place to live, but I'll make you coffee whenever you do work on the bike, or buy you beer, your choice. Anyways, thanks, I'll try that, but it sounds pretty much like what I did last night, maybe I just didn't take the adjusters out far enough. You'll hear from me if I still can't get it.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice earl, so there's no way to manually apply the clutch, even with the cover off? I'll get a cable and try that first, how hard is checking the linings? How much work/how long for an amateur to do it? Would I be better off taking it to the shop? Thanks a million,

 

[Hoomgar]

Barry, I had my cover off and even put in all new clutch plates while in there and it was quite easy. Not much to it. Just be careful when removing your case cover so as to not damage it or the gasket. That gasket if intact and not bonded to the surfaces is reusable.

Do you have the service manual for your bike? Most of them give step by step instructions on how to do this and also list the tolerances in a chart in the appendix.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Hoomgar,
I bought the Clymer just last week, so I sort of have the manual. Of course according to Clymer, the GS 400 was only made in 1977 and 1978, making my '81 VERY rare . So you say that removing the clutch wouldn't be that hard? IF the gasket is damaged or I stupidly damage it, how hard would it be to get a new one? Thanks

 

[earlfor]

Its dead simple to do Barry and I have taught all my dogs to do it.

To remove the clutch: Drain the oil from the crankcase. Remove the machine swrews from the side cover. Tap the cover front to back lightly with a rubber mallet and then rock it slightly with your hands. It should come off easily. Go slowly and chances are very good you will be able to reuse the gasket and will not tear it. (new one is about $8 if you do) Remove the hex bolts on the cover that holds the clutch linings in. (note that the plates will alternate bare/fibered/bare/fibered) You measure the thickness of the fibered plates. If the fibered plates show the fiber completely worn away, there will be scoring on the metal plates. If there is scoring on the metal plates, you will need to measure them for thickness also. Usually, it is only needed to measure the fibered plate thicknesses.
You will need a dial type verneer caliper or a micrometer to measure accurately. If at any time, there has been a petrol leak and there has been a large amount or continuous gas contamination in the oil, its a pretty safe bet the clutch linings are trashed even if they show almost all the lining thickness left. Note that the plate edges are tabbed and they must fit back into the clutch housing with the tabs lined up. They fit back in VERY easily when lined up correctly. If one doesnt go back in easy, stop and figure out why. Its a 1/2 ounce push with two fingers job, so dont force anything. I install my clutch lining hold down bolts with a 1/4" drive ratchet and have been for years. (I am sure to take some fire about proper use of a torque wrench for that I "torque the bolts to 6-8 lbs.
My method is to always use the same precise grip and move my hands through exactly the same arc for each bolt. I finger tight them all to start, then skip back and forth with the bolts, going from 3 oclock to 9, to 6 to 12 etc etc. I hold the ratchet handle at a starting position of 3 oclock and tighten to the 4 oclock position. Reposition handle to 3, go to 4 oclock. Keep the arc small and use your thumb and two fingers placed about 4 inches out on the handle. That translates to pulling about 18 lbs with two fingers on a 4 in arm to get a torque value of 6 ft lbs. (about all you can confortably do with two fingers)
The bolts are small, so you do not want to use an OMG breaker bar and two hands.

Also, to get an idea of what 18 lbs will feel like, you can put 18 lbs of canned goods in a bag and pick up the bag with two fingers and hold it for a couple secs.

You wont have any problems. I could say it is a snap, but when tightening small bolts, snap is a four letter word.

Earl

Thanks for the advice earl, so there's no way to manually apply the clutch, even with the cover off? I'll get a cable and try that first, how hard is checking the linings? How much work/how long for an amateur to do it? Would I be better off taking it to the shop? Thanks a million,

 

[WifeofDink]

Also check that the metal plates aren't warped as this can cause some problems as well. Dink and I have always made a practice of replacing the plates in the EXACT order that they came out in as well.

 

[Hoomgar]

I was also told to sand the metal plate surfaces with a piece of 100 grit to remove the glaze and rough them a little bit. I did this and it worked great. But I wonder since I don't see anyone else saying that on here how much merit there is to that? What's your take on that Earl?

 

[earlfor]

Barry, if you do tear up the gasket and cannot loate one easily, I can probably get one in two days or less and mail it to you.

Earl

Hey Hoomgar,
I bought the Clymer just last week, so I sort of have the manual. Of course according to Clymer, the GS 400 was only made in 1977 and 1978, making my '81 VERY rare . So you say that removing the clutch wouldn't be that hard? IF the gasket is damaged or I stupidly damage it, how hard would it be to get a new one? Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Barry: I bet you're using the wrong manual for your bike. Does your bike happen to be a GS400E? Clymer doesn't make a manual for this bike. Hopefully your dealer has a gasket in stock. I'm not sure if Suzuki has a warehouse in the East or not but they do have one in Vancouver and Toronto which have just about everything. If a part is on back order at the warehouses it takes over a month to get since it will be flown over from Japan by sea gulls.

I can't comment on actually working on the clutch. I'll probaby be doing it this summer though, something feels like it's running amuk in there. I don't suggest power shifting like I do, the 400's clutch can't take it.

Steve

 

[earlfor]

I think that unless there is visable buildup, sanding would have no effect.
Also, sanding could/would reduce the plate thickness and that is not a good thing. I would chose to soak the metal plates in parts cleaner instead as a glaze removal step. I doubt the average light scuff by hand with a piece of sandpaper could hurt anything though.

Earl

I was also told to sand the metal plate surfaces with a piece of 100 grit to remove the glaze and rough them a little bit. I did this and it worked great. But I wonder since I don't see anyone else saying that on here how much merit there is to that? What's your take on that Earl?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys, I think I'll try to pick up a cable today, though I doubt I will, most places close at 12 or 1 around here on a Saturday. And if that doesn't fix things, I'll go for tearing the bike apart. I did have some major fuel in the crankcase, so I bet the fibre plates are shot. Gotta get a better petcock before I put it away this winter, but that won't be for a VERY long time, I hope!

Steve, I don't think it's the 400E, I guess it could be though. Let me know how to post a picture and I'll post one of it. I would like to know what I'm driving, might simplify getting parts for it.

 

[Hoomgar]

I think that unless there is visable buildup, sanding would have no effect.
Also, sanding could/would reduce the plate thickness and that is not a good thing. I would chose to soak the metal plates in parts cleaner instead as a glaze removal step. I doubt the average light scuff by hand with a piece of sandpaper could hurt anything though.

Earl

I was also told to sand the metal plate surfaces with a piece of 100 grit to remove the glaze and rough them a little bit. I did this and it worked great. But I wonder since I don't see anyone else saying that on here how much merit there is to that? What's your take on that Earl?

Thx, I am collecting opinions from people like yourself who have done this type of work as I go. I don't want to adopt anything as a "standard" procedure just on the advice of one mechanic so I try to get a feel from several others with experience like you guys as well.

Thanks Earl.

 

[Anonymous]

Alright, took the plunge and got into the clutch today. Of course, the gasket was stuck to the case AND the cover, so it tore. Anyways, the clutch plates weren't stuck together so hopefully when my new cable comes in on Thursday that'll solve the problem of the clutch not disengaging. Of course now I need a new gasket. My local shops don't seem to recognise that suzui made a GS400 in 1981, so I fear that I won't be able to get a new gasket. So....
"Barry, if you do tear up the gasket and cannot loate one easily, I can probably get one in two days or less and mail it to you.

Earl"
Does that offer still stand Earl? I'll take a look on Tuesday at the local shops first. Also, what do you guys pay for friction plates? I checked and they're like $23 each for genuine or like $18 each for aftermarket. That seems a little steep when I need like 6. I think I'll try to get by without replacing them, they didn't smell burnt, but I guess I should measure them for thickness while I'm in there.
thanks

 

[earlfor]

Barry, for clutch plates, take a look at
http://www.partsnmore.com/PNMSite/Suzuki GS Engine Parts.html
About $4 each.

Yep, the offer stands, let me know if you have no luck locally and I will see what I can do about getting you a gasket.

Earl



[quote="Barry
Also, what do you guys pay for friction plates? I checked and they're like $23 each for genuine or like $18 each for aftermarket. That seems a little steep when I need like 6.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Earl,
I went all day without a reply, I thought someone had told you that you could go on vacation for the long weekend or something Have you gotten clutch plates from that site before? I like the fact that they realize that the gs400 was built for more than 2 years! I think I'll go through them if I need to replace the plates.

With regards to the gasket, have you ever made your own? You can get sheets of gasket at tractor places and stuff I believe, and there are a reasonable amount of tractor shops in this area, two bolts holding the large clutch cover on came from a tractor place. Anyways, does that work? or is it just a temporary thing? I think if I'm going to be waiting a long time to get the gasket I might order the plates and put them in while I'm at it. And when my cable shows up, go with a homemade gasket until the plates and OEM one arrive. Any ideas?
Thanks