clutch rod seal install.

[ottawa rogue]

Hi guys. I know there's a million threads on this subject, but I can't find what I need.
I have a 80 450e that has a clutch rod seal leaking. It's the one that goes in the case from the outside
And does not have a retainer plate. There are no bosses for one either

How do you install this seal and not screw it up??? I've torn the rubber off the outside of 2 seals in a row
And it's getting kinda frustrating.
I'll think I've got it in and as soon as the engine is started, it blows out and makes a helluva mess
Any idea???
Thanks in advance

 

[ottawa rogue]

This is what's happening, I'm oiling the seal like everyone says to do and driving it in slowly. It almost acts like it's the wrong seal, but it's the same one that came out of the bike

 

[Nessism]

I did one of those seals but it was 2006 and I forgot all the details. Pretty sure there is supposed to be a retainer of some sort though. As I recall there are a couple different configurations of the seal/retention mechanism. You might want to search the archives for more info.

 

[ottawa rogue]

I don't see anywhere to bolt a retainer down at all.here's a photo of the area

 

[ottawa rogue]

Whoops, wrong pic sorry

 

[tkent02]

There is a seal holder, look on the parts diagram.


https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/7

 

[ottawa rogue]

There is no place to bolt the holder down on my bike, the photo above shows the area.
My bike may be one of the ones with the flanged seal originally, but by the time I got it the non flange seal was in it.

 

[ottawa rogue]

How would I modify this bike to use the holder? I don't have the boss that the holder bolts to

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j...es forum pictures/2011-10-03_20-50-35_412.jpg
The boss this plate bolts to isn't on my bike.

 

[Nessism]

I'm not sure what to suggest. Suzuki must have added the plate on later bikes than yours. Maybe you could fab something up or put something in the sprocket cover to hold the seal in place?

 

[sam000lee]

Here's a pic of my '81 for reference. I have an '80 engine, too, that I can check when I get a chance but unfortunately it won't be for a couple of days.

 

[ottawa rogue]

ok, thanks guys. I wonder if some Loctite would help retain that seal? the PO must have had it replaced at some point, it's the non flanged seal. bigger thing is how to get it in there without skinning the rubber off of the outside of the seal.
I still haven't figured that one out.

 

[sam000lee]

Just a thought but are you starting it with the clutch cover installed? If not - is there something in that assembly in your model that might act to retain the seal?

 

[tkent02]

I went through all of the GS550 parts diagrams, they show a seal holder for all years. A few changes over the years, but they all had something, and they all had bolts to hold the holders in..
The fact that yours has no mounting holes is very strange.
What is the engine number?

 

[Nessism]

The photo of the hole in the cases is a little hard to see but it almost looks like there is damage as if someone hammered on the cases and created burrs around the opening. True? If so, I'd dress back those burrs and radius the outside edge of the case just a little so as to not skim off the rubber on the outside edge of the seal. I'm guessing that Suzuki installed the seal before the crankcase is bolted together thus the seal is a little larger than the hole itself to help hold it in place. Putting the seal in the freezer to chill and shrink it may help you get it installed without damage. I'd coat the outside surface of the seal with a sealer for lubrication. Some Threebond 1184 or similar. Lastly, you may want to fab up some bosses of some sort that you can wedge between the ribs on the cases so that a sheet metal plate can be added to hold in the seal, just in case. Use JB Weld or similar high strength and high temp epoxy to attach the bosses to the cases. This will require some hand fabrication but I think it's doable.

Good luck

 

[ottawa rogue]

Tkent, it's a 450 if that makes a difference. I'll take some better photos tonight
Nessism, there were some burrs that I knocked down before I tried to install the seal.
Maybe I'll go back pner that area and vjfer the edge. Do you think a anaerobic sealant would work?
I have some Cat stuff that works pretty good

 

[Wallowgreen]

Maybe you've already dug out this old thread of mine and read it but I suspect the 450 may have gone through the same or similar evolution as with the 250 engine cases. Look at post #26, it describes how the engine cases of the 250 are of two types - early and late. The early cases only accept a lipped type oil seal as they cannot be modified to use the later non-lipped oil seal and retaining plate. Confusion is easy as both seals have valid part numbers for the machine.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...utch-shaft-oil-seal-puzzle&highlight=oil+seal

It's possible the seal has already been changed once using the later non-lipped seal likely glued or gooped in somehow when the early lipped seal should have been used. Obviously means splitting the cases to fit tho and likely why the short cut was done.

Not the answer you're looking for I know but that's my guess.

 

[ottawa rogue]

I did run across your thread wallogreen, and that thought had crossed my mind.
Man, I don't want to have to split the engine if ibdont have to.
Is the flanged seal even still available?

 

[Wallowgreen]

It was when I was looking for the 250, few years ago now though boy how time flies.

It'll take some digging to find it I suspect, seem to recall all I could find was the non-flanged on parts lists.

 

[Sandy]

Just thought and could be a bit of a bodge but what if you could get a very large washer and make some sort of retainer from it. There looks to be enough material between the clutch pushrod and the counter shaft sprocket to drill and tap a shallow hole and maybe you find a spot towards the front to do same. Odd that there's that much pressure behind the seal as many motorcycles just use a regular push in seal. Oh well, hopefully you don't have to split the cases. Not that big of job but can be intimidating if you've never done it.

 

[Nessism]

Just thought and could be a bit of a bodge but what if you could get a very large washer and make some sort of retainer from it. There looks to be enough material between the clutch pushrod and the counter shaft sprocket to drill and tap a shallow hole and maybe you find a spot towards the front to do same. Odd that there's that much pressure behind the seal as many motorcycles just use a regular push in seal. Oh well, hopefully you don't have to split the cases. Not that big of job but can be intimidating if you've never done it.

There is oil flow coming from the pump flowing right down the pushrod hole.