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Coil Mod Gone Bad - 30 miles in at 70mph

  • Thread starter Thread starter markdjr
  • Start date Start date
M

markdjr

Guest
I just did the coil mod, everything was working great, but suddenly cruising down the freeway it went out on me. I'm looking for a higher quality relay right now, I used the only one my local had, but it's pretty cheap. Any other ideas?

I have a 78 GS550, I mounted it with a loose ziptie to the little tool box under the seat, tried to minimize vibration.

Thanks.
 
My first two lasted three blocks on zipties. The last one lasted 4k miles and then died getting onto an onramp. I bought a new ignition switch instead. The mounting seems to be pretty important. The first two I destroyed were Bosch, the one that lasted 4k miles was a no-name brand.
 
Mine has lasted 2k ish miles with NO ties or what not. I just have it sitting, tucked under the coil. Its not long enough in wire to go anywhere, and the vibration there must be minimal. All Mr Steve's doing there... :D
 
My ign/coil relay has been on for 15K miles. If I had to replace it would probably cost $50 HD sealed weather pack relay (painless wiring), I'm guessing 30 amp Originally bought it to run a auto Holly elect fuel pump. Mounted near the start soloniod
 
I mounted mine to the main frame spar just forward of the coils. I zip tied it to the frame with a piece of soft foam rubber sandwiched between the frame and the relay. No problems yet but I've got two spares in the tail and I can always revert to stock in about a minute once I get the tank off.

/\/\ac
 
Just curious, what gage wire should i use to install one of these gizmos on the bike?? Use a 10A fuse I guess too?

Does this still apply to bike running aftermarket dyna coils??
 
I used 14 gauge.
It can be used on any coils if you're losing voltage through your kill switch.
 
Got mine from a junkyard for 3 bucks with wiring harness. Just chopped it off a mitsubishi suv. It was for the electric fan so I know it can handle amps well and is weather proof and vibration/heat resistant. I even grabbed another relay for back up for a dollar. I havnt found too many aftermarket relays that are reliable (especially from discount part stores) so I try to use factory grade ones if possible plus they,re under the hood of almost every car in the junkyard. Well, that and I'm a cheap bastidge but I've never had one that I used give me a problem.
 
We'd probably see far better results if the relays weren't roasting on top of a hot engine.

Both my bikes have relays back under the side covers to power heated grips, and I haven't had any problems at all in two years of use. The relays are always on when the key is on (there's a switch on the handlebars to control the grips), so I guess I could also power the coils on the GS.

My relays are the cheapos from the auto parts store, intended to power driving lights. It's amazing how hard it is to find decent quality electrical stuff.

I do really like the idea of grabbing high-quality OEM relays from a junkyard. Can you give any tips on what/where to look for?
 
Just about any car from the 90's up has a relay and fuse box under the hood (power distribution center). The relays used under the hood usually have seals around the plug and are more stout in construction due to the high heat and vibrations there. I usually grab ones for the electric fan or fuel pump but the horn relay is also made for high amps. These heavy duty relays will probably never see the load they were built to handle just as coil relays so I imagine they would last much longer. I use em in everything including the '04 chevy trailblazer horns (freakin loud!) I put on my 79 gs1000. I also prefer japanese or german cars to pull these off of because they are constructed well and use decent wiring in the harness (the newer the better) but most american cars probably use japanese or german relays anyway. Nothing that says made in mexico or china (sorry mexico and china).
 
bwringer said:
We'd probably see far better results if the relays weren't roasting on top of a hot engine.

Both my bikes have relays back under the side covers to power heated grips, and I haven't had any problems at all in two years of use. The relays are always on when the key is on (there's a switch on the handlebars to control the grips), so I guess I could also power the coils on the GS.

My relays are the cheapos from the auto parts store, intended to power driving lights. It's amazing how hard it is to find decent quality electrical stuff.

I do really like the idea of grabbing high-quality OEM relays from a junkyard. Can you give any tips on what/where to look for?
Click to expand...


I used a 40 amp no name brand from Autozone which happened to be in the neon light section.

I've got 2K on it so far and it has done ok. Mine is also tucked behind the side cover.
 
markdjr said:
I just did the coil mod, everything was working great, but suddenly cruising down the freeway it went out on me. I'm looking for a higher quality relay right now, I used the only one my local had, but it's pretty cheap. Any other ideas?

I have a 78 GS550, I mounted it with a loose ziptie to the little tool box under the seat, tried to minimize vibration.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
This is one of those ideas that seems good on paper. In practice, and with 38 years electronics (a lot of mobile and marine), 21 years as a mechanic, I can tell you that my first thought when I started seeing this idea on here, was that there was no way I'd add more connections AND an electro-mechanical switch (your relay) to a hostile - vibrating, wet and condensing, environment - and hope it was more reliable. Not on my bike.
I'd recommend that IF a problem appears with low voltage or other issues, understand, troubleshoot and repair the problem - the original design is really not that bad. My .02 worth.
 
Got mine from here... https://www.allelectronics.com/

About $1.30 each. Got sockets & fuse etc too plus wire, heat shrink etc.

So far so good with about 2200 miles. Mine is mounted off a bracket off the battery box mounting screw so it has the rubber from that mounting & the flex in the bracket plus the flex in it's own plastic housing. I agree back there is better for heat cycles & for me it just made more sense.

I carry a spare relay on the bike thus hopefully insuring that I will never need it....

Dan :)
 
SPARKSS said:
This is one of those ideas that seems good on paper. In practice, and with 38 years electronics (a lot of mobile and marine), 21 years as a mechanic, I can tell you that my first thought when I started seeing this idea on here, was that there was no way I'd add more connections AND an electro-mechanical switch (your relay) to a hostile - vibrating, wet and condensing, environment - and hope it was more reliable. Not on my bike.
I'd recommend that IF a problem appears with low voltage or other issues, understand, troubleshoot and repair the problem - the original design is really not that bad. My .02 worth.
Click to expand...

Excellent point! The correct action would be to locate and resolve the problem. But in my case there was such a voltage drop throughout the circuit (fuse box, ign switch, kill switch etc.) that this relay was an easy and reliable way to get full battery voltage to the coils every time. I know that a properly built circuit should yield very little resistance but after ohming out all the switches and wiring then adding up the resistance it made more sense to me (im special) to just make a new circuit using the old one as the control circuit. Relays are pretty tough these days (except the cheesy pilot ones at awful zone) and if automotive grade ones arent tough enough there are always industrial grade ones used on contruction equipment. They can handle way more than a motorcycle can throw at them. Im a master certified tech of 12 years (fledgling still compared to your 21 years) and work on construction equipment and tractor/trailers. These vehicles are ABUSED and subject to the harshest environments I can think of (picture a bobcat breaking concrete in rain or snow) still very rarely have any relay issues. Again I couldn't agree more that this relay mod is a shortcut to properly constructing the coil circuit but wanted to let it be known that it CAN be made reliable if constructed with quality parts and wiring and is a very easy fix for a common problem.
 
SPARKSS said:
This is one of those ideas that seems good on paper. In practice, and with 38 years electronics (a lot of mobile and marine), 21 years as a mechanic, I can tell you that my first thought when I started seeing this idea on here, was that there was no way I'd add more connections AND an electro-mechanical switch (your relay) to a hostile - vibrating, wet and condensing, environment - and hope it was more reliable. Not on my bike.
I'd recommend that IF a problem appears with low voltage or other issues, understand, troubleshoot and repair the problem - the original design is really not that bad. My .02 worth.
Click to expand...

I see your argument and raise the pot.

You and I certainly understand what the original intent of a relay was; to have a low amp circuit control a high amp circuit. This allowed for looms to shrink in size, then came mutliplexing, CAN and so-forth, which is irrelevant for our dinosaur electro-mechanic machines, but my point was that the relay can handle a crummy environment. With smarter technologies, Pre-Conditioning to better resist dynamic welding has been explored, but this is in the opposite direction of NVH sustainablity.

You also have to remember that not everyone has the ability to dis/reassemble a switch and lower/clean any carbon build up on the brass terminals and reapply some dielectric grease and have the switch stay together after someone has compromised its original construction.

Handlebar, clutch, and ignition switches are a bit many to be breaking up one circuit that isn't that great to begin with. 16-18 gauge wire running all over the place with three interruptions makes for a bit of a voltage drop; even when new.

If someone was super-sensitive, I you could run an SSR to ensure it would hold up at the tune of about 28 bucks, but I'm uncertain how much heat it might generate and/or a heat sink would need to be utilized.

My cheapo 4.99 relay is holding up fine, but again, I run a 40 amp, not a 30 which still shouldn't change its measured NVH tolerance.

It seems that guys who run their relays behind the side covers have greater longevity than those who mount them adjacent to the coils.


Anyone determined to use a relay and has been experiencing problems, give these guys a shout and see about a SSR.

http://www.area51esg.com/relay-switches-agastat-tyco-dunn.htm

On a side note, I was wondering if the EMF generated at and around the coils was burning out the e/m relays prematurely.
 
rusty boltz said:
Excellent point! The correct action would be to locate and resolve the problem. But in my case there was such a voltage drop throughout the circuit (fuse box, ign switch, kill switch etc.) that this relay was an easy and reliable way to get full battery voltage to the coils every time. I know that a properly built circuit should yield very little resistance but after ohming out all the switches and wiring then adding up the resistance it made more sense to me (im special) to just make a new circuit using the old one as the control circuit. Relays are pretty tough these days (except the cheesy pilot ones at awful zone) and if automotive grade ones arent tough enough there are always industrial grade ones used on contruction equipment. They can handle way more than a motorcycle can throw at them. Im a master certified tech of 12 years (fledgling still compared to your 21 years) and work on construction equipment and tractor/trailers. These vehicles are ABUSED and subject to the harshest environments I can think of (picture a bobcat breaking concrete in rain or snow) still very rarely have any relay issues. Again I couldn't agree more that this relay mod is a shortcut to properly constructing the coil circuit but wanted to let it be known that it CAN be made reliable if constructed with quality parts and wiring and is a very easy fix for a common problem.
Click to expand...

My Pilot one has held up fine. You also bring up a point of how reliability can be had, and to boot, the time it would take to maybe gain a 1V back. Twenty mins and your in business with a relay.

PS, did you get your L1?
 
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