Dyno Results Needed - stock vs. pods/pipe/jet kit

[Nessism]

This is the link to the actual document I have referenced. If you cannot open it, please send me a PM rather than putting the information in this thread.
I can see it, but I belong to the forum.
I have it saved as a jpg, but at 317k it far exceeds our limitation of 97.7k.


http://kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/585949-pods-in-search-of-a-free-lunch#585949

That's the same test I used to make one of those graphs.

 

[posplayr]

I know I read that article before but there are many new things that I picked up on this time or just forgot about reading.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Good, you can see the article. If you read through it, they do establish that the stock setup approaches the performance of the modified unit, not only on the dyno but also at the strip.

 

[posplayr]

Good, you can see the article. If you read through it, they do establish that the stock setup approaches the performance of the modified unit, not only on the dyno but also at the strip.

On the track the slowest ET was the most modified

And a kerker pipe with no jetting changes is the fastest.

Now who was it doing the tests?

 

[blowerbike]

this must be 30 year old data:lol:

 

[koolaid_kid]

this must be 30 year old data:lol:

Is that why it is so slow, it is 30 years old?
This was an article published in Cycle World.
That is everyone's justification for staying stock; the data from an independent source, Cycle World, supports it.

 

[UncleMike]

That is everyone's justification for staying stock; the data from an independent source, Cycle World, supports it.

Personally, I've stayed stock because it was easier to get it running right ... and I like the look/sound of dual pipes more than single.

That said, I do have a Dyno Stage 3 kit and I'm going to install the needles at some point into my stock setup.

 

[koolaid_kid]

The one thing to note on this article; they did not install a Dynojet kit. All they did was increase the size of the Mikuni main and pilot jets.
For me, tuning is not an issue because iI use my wideband. And\ my pipe has a nice mellow sound, not obnoxious.

 

[blowerbike]

my point is that there is no point.
the magazines had the v max as king dick and the magna bla bla bla.
all BS.
i seen many of the above mentioned shaft bikes at the track for years..
they wouldn't fall out of a tree.
1100/1150's
cb1100f and so on would and did destroy these magazine hero's.
all fluff.......................................:-$

 

[koolaid_kid]

So, what did they have against aftermarket pipes and K&N filters? Seems like they would want the advertising revenue from those vendors.

 

[blowerbike]

IMO the magazines back then was like reality TV shows we have today.
nothing they stated performance wise was ever duplicated by the consumer.
corrected this and corrected that..pfffft
specialty prepped bikes from the manufacturers and so on.
yes i enjoyed reading them and i also still have a stash form the 80's but after going to the track with a hired gun from 1985 to around 90ish..
just to duplicate gleason's GSXR1100 #'s i had to do a jet kit/pipe/advancer on my brand new 86 gixxer.
my point is the magazines may not be the best source of information.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Exactly why I was trying to find someone who had before and after dyno charts and 1/4 mile data from the present day with the configuration I am running; pods, pipe and a DynoJet kit correctly tuned.

 

[Nessism]

I remember the magazine tests from back in the day, a number of them, and I've yet to see one where the bike made more than 6-7% by adding pods and a pipe. I suppose some model bike may have had a particularly stopped up exhaust and made more power than that, but it's NOT the norm, that's for sure. The pipes that made such power were not typically the cheap and relatively quiet consumer pipes either. Basically, the Japanese engineers knew what they were doing. Without some sort of compromise, be it noise, poor carb isolation, something, you aren't going to make a bunch of power with a simple exhaust and intake mod. And a crappy pipe will lose you power too.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I can see a 5-6% increase. But they don't even show that.

 

[blowerbike]

the 86 GSXR was a prime example of big HP gains with a full system.
hell even just a slip on made the clutch slip on a brand new/not yet raced bike.
i'm thinking 15 HP on a full system.
the rear wheel HP on the stock bike i think was around 100..maybe 98.

 

[jimb12]

Don't have dyno sheets for it, but a friend's 1980 GS1100E picked up 7mph in the 1/4 mile with a VHR 4-1 pipe, pods and a DJ Stage 3 kit. Even allowing for the weight savings of the pipe, there's no question that horsepower was improved to get such a performance increase. Such a real, on-track performance increase means more than any dyno sheet by the way.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Thanks for the info, and I agree. A dyno is nice because you can present a chart, but it is the butt-in-seat dyno that counts the most.

 

[limeex2]

Having worked in a dealership for 20 years, I have seen many DJ kits put in that made the bike bikes run like ****. It isnt the dyno numbers that are impressive, its the driveability, getting the most HP you can, with what you have. Most tuners that are good, heavy emphasis on GOOD, can set the bike up for what you like. Mileage/performance/midrange ect. DJ kits are expensive, a good dyno man will pay for himself in driveability, performance ect. My bike stock bike ran fine. 36 mpg, good driveability. After a $500 dyno tune, it got 44 mpg, would pull from a stop sign in second gear, no surging, power from idle to redlne. picked up 8 HP on a TOTALLY stock bike. Drove the bike for 45000 miles before the bike went away. The savings in mpg alone almost paid for the dyno work. I my opinion, do it right, or don't do it all

 

[Nessism]

Having worked in a dealership for 20 years, I have seen many DJ kits put in that made the bike bikes run like ****. It isnt the dyno numbers that are impressive, its the driveability, getting the most HP you can, with what you have. Most tuners that are good, heavy emphasis on GOOD, can set the bike up for what you like. Mileage/performance/midrange ect. DJ kits are expensive, a good dyno man will pay for himself in driveability, performance ect. My bike stock bike ran fine. 36 mpg, good driveability. After a $500 dyno tune, it got 44 mpg, would pull from a stop sign in second gear, no surging, power from idle to redlne. picked up 8 HP on a TOTALLY stock bike. Drove the bike for 45000 miles before the bike went away. The savings in mpg alone almost paid for the dyno work. I my opinion, do it right, or don't do it all

Your bike must have been misfiring before the tuning work.

 

[posplayr]

Having worked in a dealership for 20 years, I have seen many DJ kits put in that made the bike bikes run like ****. It isnt the dyno numbers that are impressive, its the driveability, getting the most HP you can, with what you have. Most tuners that are good, heavy emphasis on GOOD, can set the bike up for what you like. Mileage/performance/midrange ect. DJ kits are expensive, a good dyno man will pay for himself in driveability, performance ect. My bike stock bike ran fine. 36 mpg, good driveability. After a $500 dyno tune, it got 44 mpg, would pull from a stop sign in second gear, no surging, power from idle to redlne. picked up 8 HP on a TOTALLY stock bike. Drove the bike for 45000 miles before the bike went away. The savings in mpg alone almost paid for the dyno work. I my opinion, do it right, or don't do it all

Using an WB02 sensor I screwed around quite a bit with all out runs till I finally found a long steep hill to do my "road pulls". Once i finally got the AFR as close as i was with my setup there was a noticeable improvement in the quickness of the bike (basically how easy the front wheel pulled up in 2nd gear).

So I agree there is probably some hidden Hp there if you have modified your bike but not gotten the AFR just right. Based on my results it is relatively sensitive especially to the needle taper.


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=164565&highlight=AFR+Info

As A guide, this is what I saw near my optimum tune point.

• 1 notch rise in needle ( e.g. 4 to 3 from bot) at 1/2 throttle will lower AFR 1 full point (e.g. 14.0 to 13.0).
• A drop in Main by 2 sizes (e.g. 140 to 135) at 1/2 throttle will raise AFR 1 full point.(e.g. 13.5 to 14.5)
• A drop in Main by 2 sizes (e.g. 140 to 135) at WOT ------- will raise AFR 1/2 a point.(e.g. 11.0 to 11.5)

SUMMARY: @ 1/2 Throttle: 1 needle notch = 2 jet sizes​