Dynojet Problems

[mike J]

Ok guys I called Dynojet today and they confirmed that the needle for my 1150 is the correct one. Now I question the spacer arraingnment for my carb. The kit was installed with the spring in first, then the needle, then a plastic washer, then a metal washer. The plastic top then holds everything in place. It looks like to me the spring should go in first followed by the plastic washer then the needle and then the plastic top to hold it in place. The plastic top has a tit molded in it to fit in the "e" cilp for the needle, or so it appears that way. Maybe something is missing here and that is causing my running problems. Can anyone please help? Mike

 

[Dink]

Have you considered going to the Dynojet site and downoading a set of instructions? They should show you the correct setup and also give you a list of whh jets should be in your bike, I dont have a link to Dynojet or I would give it to you . Hopefully someone will have a link for you.
Dink

 

[wrench]

http://www.dynojet.com/carbjet.shtml

 

[mike J]

I've been to their website but the diagram is wrong, The carb shown is a flat slide model. Dyno tells me there should be a spacer above the needle that comes stock but I can't find a drawing that shows this area clearly. Mike J

 

[mike J]

I guess what I'm asking is this, can someone who has stock carbs tell me the spacer and needle arraingnment for these carbs. Certainly someone has a stock set of carbs laying around that they can pull the top off of and look. Sorry to be a bother. Mike J

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I guess what I'm asking is this, can someone who has stock carbs tell me the spacer and needle arraingnment for these carbs. Certainly someone has a stock set of carbs laying around that they can pull the top off of and look. Sorry to be a bother. Mike J

Ask Earl. He has an 1150 and tinkers a lot. I'm sure he knows the needle arrangement.
My experience with needle assy's is there is never any metal to metal contact. The spring should have a plastic spacer between it and the metal e-clip. Then the top of the e-clip is covered by a plastic spacer or the plastic top.

 

[mike J]

I stopped by a Suzuki dealer this morning. His microfiche shows a spacer/washer above the stock needle so I had him order me 4 of them, it's worth a try. Another question, there are some rubber plugs in the float bowl that cover the pilot jet. These plugs are in rough shape. I had him get me 4 of these as well. I'm wondering why the plugs are there and how the pilot jet gets fuel with these plugs in place. I'm determined to solve this problem. Mike

 

[Dink]

Those plugs are there so the pilot jet only draws off the chamber around the emulsion tube above the main jet, the pilot jet is only supposed to supply a small amount of fuel, if they are shot it would lead to the richness problem you mention.
Dink

 

[mike J]

Dink, you may have just made my day!!!!

 

[Mark Harrop]

A couple of years ago, while I was fooling with the carbs on my 750 for what seemed like the hundreth time, I lost two of those plugs. I whittled a couple of chunks of scrap oak down to size and banged them in the holes.....worked like a champ. Low buck too :wink:
Seems like every bike I've ever owned has had something on it I made of wood....odd :-s

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

mike j, I'm not sure what your carbs are but I looked at some BS34SS carbs and they show a washer under the e-clip and a "ring" on top of the e-clip. This "ring" is thicker than the washer underneath. If you had no ring on top the e-clip, this would cause a very rich mixture. The needle would be allowed to rise too high.
On these carbs, the order of assembly is: needle, spring, washer, e-clip, ring.
As for the rubber plugs, I think they're just installed to help stop tampering. The pilot jet will only allow a certain amount of fuel to pass. It wouldn't matter if fuel was entering through the main and the rubber plug hole for the pilot jet. The only way more fuel could get past the pilot jet would be if it was loose. That's my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mike J]

Well after an exhaustive search I'm almost ready to give the carbs another try. I ordered the top spacers from Suzuki and just as I guessed they were the same as in my carbs. Who ever put the jet kit in didn't have a washer between the spring and the "e" clip. I ended up machining some delrin spacers for the top and bottom of the needle and cut the plastic tit off the top holder. For the life of me I can't believe this but Suzuki or Mikuni just flat had to make a mistake by the way the spacers fit. I ended up taking out the dynojet washer on top as I can see it served no purpose whatsoever other than moving the needle lower and you can do that with the clip. Should get to try it out this weekend. Mike

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I doubt that Mikuni is to blame. Someone's put the assembly back in wrong or some parts have been swapped or?
Can you show some pic's and maybe we can figure it out? I'd like to see how the "tit" works in this assembly. A tit ALWAYS must fit into a hole or indentation. I'm a little surprised an 1150 owner hasn't set you straight on these carbs. :?

 

[mike J]

Keith, I've already done the reassy on the carbs. I'm like you, It's hard to believe that Suzuki / Mikuni did this but that what it seems. The Suzuki microfiche shows it this way and also looked at the Suzuki service manual and it has a pic of the parts in the order of assy and they are the same way. I wish someone had a set of these carbs that could pull the slide out and check it. I mean my carbs can't be the only set like this. That's why I ordered new parts to make sure it was right and they sent me the same thing I had. The only thing that I was wrong (from whoever put the kit in) was there was no washer between the "e" clip and the spring. This would let the spring almost slide up over the "e" clip. The thing that's so weird is that if you put the spacer I ordered under the needle everything looks just like it was designed that way. The plastic tit fits right in the opening of the "e" clip like it was to keep it from spinning. I know from conversations on here that Earl is a stickler for details so would love to get him involved in this but do far no luck. I eventually want to put the 33's on my bike but without getting the stockers dialed correctly in I won't know if they are worth the trade off, and from experience, ever time you change / modify something there's a trade off. Mike J

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The thing that's so weird is that if you put the spacer I ordered under the needle everything looks just like it was designed that way. The plastic tit fits right in the opening of the "e" clip like it was to keep it from spinning.

I've never seen anything go in an e-clip opening. As far as I know, the needle and its clip should be able to rotate with vibration, which is just my opinion. If an e-clip CAN easily spin on the needle, it WILL cut into and damage the needle with vibration. I've seen this.
So how does the bike run?

 

[Anonymous]

Carburator needle height adjustment and assembly

Carburator needle height adjustment and assembly

My carburators had a "top hat" of sorts which was set in the needle slide and then secured with a circlip. I believe the spring was slipped on the needle, and then the needle inserted into the slide. The washer went on the TOP of the needle before inserting-the top of the circlip. Adding more washers would LOWER the needle, thereby making the mixture LEANER.

Also, the "tit" on the plastic "top hat" (a white plastic thingy) is supposed to TIP THE NEEDLE to one side. This makes the needle rest against one side of the needle hole in the carburator body. Why? So vibration does not destroy the needle.

The above was on a Suzuki 750EZ, 1982. I'n not sure if Mikuni or Keihin, however, they used the large diameter main jets. I believe they are like yours.

The plastic washer you talk of is about maybe 0.150 thick by memory and mind measurement. The manufacturers used this to set the needle height for stock and made it one piece so the needle height was fixed. You can buy washers off the shelf and some places that will work. Watch the diameter and make sure they are "burr free" and the same thickness as each other so the carbs remain balanced.

Comments? Happy motoring. Dieter

 

[Anonymous]

E-clip vs "tit".....

E-clip vs "tit".....

Mike J

The "tit" on the plastic top hat that is held in by the large circlip in the slide body is NOT meant to fit into the needle small circlip at all.

You must have at least one washer on top of the needles circlip in order to prevent the tit from going into the opening on the circlip. Yes, I see quite clearly you did not place washers on TOP of the needle, between the "top hat" and therefore you are running your needles quite high. ON the order of an 1/8 inch or so or 0.125. That's alot.

If you drilled out the hole on the bottom of your slides - which the dynojet kit recommends, this causes your slides to come up quicker, and to ride a little higher for a given vacuum (throttle opening) so you get better acceleration. I believe this IS your problem - having the needles too high.

The assembled order from top to bottom is......

Large circlip

Top hat

next on the needle.....which is "covered" by the top hat and inserted into the slide body, the order from needle top to bottom (bottom goes into the slide body) is:

Washer(s) (plastic OR metal is OK-use correct amount)

Needle circlip

spring

insert into slide needle hole

ON Hondas, the arrangement was a top hat but the spring was inserted in the top hat first. Adjustment was made by changing the washer thicknesses UNDER the needle circlip. From what you describe, you do NOT have this arrangement.

- Dieter

 

[mike J]

Also, the "tit" on the plastic "top hat" (a white plastic thingy) is supposed to TIP THE NEEDLE to one side. This makes the needle rest against one side of the needle hole in the carburator body. Why? So vibration does not destroy the needle.


Well if that's the case I just ruined my 4 "top hats" as you call them. That's what was so crazy about the whole matter, it would make the needle tip to one side and that's why I kept saying that had to be wrong. Damn it to hell, for the life of me I've never seen anything designed like this!!!! Well I guess I'm screwed now, I just refused to believe that was correct because of the way it fit. I hope to go run the bike tomorrow and see what it runs like but looks like it back to the suzuki shop for parts again. Anybody got a match and some gasoline? Mike

 

[mike J]

Tony, where were you two weeks ago?


But seriously, thanks for helping clear this up

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

mike j, if the "tilted' needle was what was bothering you, you should have said so earlier. That's normal. The needles are always a little "springy" and go to one side. When lowering the slides/pistons into the carbs, you always have to straighten/guide the needle into the needle jet because of this.
Water under the bridge now. :roll: Hope the bike runs good when you get it together. Let us know.