Extremely rich mixture, crappy fuel mileage, newbie needs help

[BassCliff]

Oops!

Oops!

The 16 valve adjustment is also on the BassCliff website.

That's right Mr. Big T. Sorry Mr. flyanimator, I pointed you to the wrong file. I thought the 1980 GS1100 was an 8-valve motor. The direct link to the 16-valve adjustment guide is here:

Valve Adjustment for 16 Valve Motors
(by Mr. basic)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[flyanimator]

Thank you Basscliff, I just found it myself ajust a minute ago. Your website is great and has alot of awesome information. I'm sure it is appreciated by all GS owners. Thank you for compiling that info.
-Rudy

 

[waterman]

Thanks for the tip Sq.
I honestly think that the shop i took it to adjusted something wrong on it cause before I had it "fixed" it did not run that rich.

A plugged or over oiled foam air filter will also result in a rich condition. Last summer I worked on my brother's gs1000g that ran ok but had never had carbs off. After pulling about a half of a teaspoon of rust flakes out of the carbs, I couldn't understand why it wasn't overly lean. I check his air filter, literally dripping wet with oil, After a carb orings, sync, plugs and tweaking the pilot jet screws, it starts and run better than he can ever remember; he bought it new in 80.

You can roughly check your fuel mixure ratio by reading your spark plugs at various throttle positions. Do a search on "plug chops" for procedure. Essentially you will run motor at a steady state, at idle, at 1/3 throttle and finally wide open throttle. At each of these riding states you turn off motor via kill switch, this will preserve the fuel mixture of the motor at these conditions. Come to stop and pull sparkplugs out and observe color of plugs.

Another tool that will allow you to observe mixture ratio is called "colortune", which is a see through sparkplug that allows you to see the color of the burning gasoline. I have one, it works well but not easy to check motor under load.

Most likely the shop played with floats and jets, who know what they actually changed though.

 

[flyanimator]

Thanks for the tip water man. I replaced the air filter when I did my oil change last weekend and i checked it just now and it's clean and has no signs of oil on it.

I just did a quick compression check (although the engine was not warmed up) and the numbers came as follows.
Cyl #1:125
Cyl #2:121
Cyl #3:127
Cyl #4:126

I will be doing a warm compression check on Friday morning and will report those numbers then. I'm just about to check the voltage at the coils as someone on here recomended. I will also be checking valve clearances and adjusting on Friday just to make sure as well. Then I plan on pulling the carbs and taking a peek inside to see whats going on. The carbs on it are mikuni I can't tell the size but it does have a 326 in a small spot on the right side of each carb. Are these the stock carbs for this engine?

Just for refference, the number on the engine reads GS110X-115051 and it's a 16 valve.

 

[flyanimator]

Ok i just checked the voltage to the coils.
On the left coil i'm getting a little under 8 (somwhere around 7.56v) volts to the front lead (orange/white wire) and about 12.5 volts to the rear lead (yellow wire).
On the right coil i'm getting a around 7.41 volts to the front lead (orange/white wire) and about 12.5 volts to the rear lead (black/white wire). Is this what they are supposed to be or should they all be around 12.5 volts.

When I did the compression test i noticed the plugs on cylinders 1, 2, and 4 were full of black soot (to me this indicates a rich mix, although i could be wrong) Cylinder 3 plug was normal. I did change these las weekend with the correct NGK d8ea plugs.

Thank you to all who have given me information and provided suggestions on what to check or what the problem might be. I will be going through the rest of your suggestions this weekend and will report back with the results.

Thanks again.
-Rudy

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. flyanimator,

On these old bikes it's quite possible that there is a lot of corrosion in all of the electrical connections and grounds. This adds resistance to the circuits in the wiring harness. Have you had a chance to clean every electrical connection on your bike, from the headlight bucket to the tail light? Take a look at the Electrical Odds and Ends page on my site. Then read over the Coil Relay Modification to see if that interests you. Many riders perform this mod to get full voltage at the coils on these old bikes.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[flyanimator]

ok I just went throught the coil relay modificatrion page anbd through the one that has several other relay mods for these old bikes and I will be performing some if not all of these mods over the weekend. I guess the orange/white wires to the coils should have 12v then; mine only have 7.5 or so. I'm pretty sure after reading all the info you guys gave me, that this is the most likely culprit for my bike issues. The headlight cut off when starting and hi/low beam on when switched to high is awesome and should help me out. I really like the turn signals coming on with the horn as well, this should make riding a little safer out on the mean streets. Thanks alot to whoever published this info and to whoever compiled it in an easy to reach location. Thanks alot to everyone here who has helped me. When ever i start touring I would like to visit you all just to shake your hand and thank you in person.:clap:

 

[BassCliff]

I really like the turn signals coming on with the horn as well, this should make riding a little safer out on the mean streets.

Hunh? :-k

You lost me there. Is that on my website? I don't remember putting it there. Please clarify.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

Check my homemade one out....
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=118858&highlight=caRb+SYNCH

and before you dismiss the idea, ask Steve how close I was

Not sure if he was good or just lucky, but, ... let's just put it this way ... it was close enough that I did not want to risk messing it up by trying to get it perfect. :clap:

Ok i just checked the voltage to the coils.
On the left coil i'm getting a little under 8 (somwhere around 7.56v) volts to the front lead (orange/white wire) and about 12.5 volts to the rear lead (yellow wire).
On the right coil i'm getting a around 7.41 volts to the front lead (orange/white wire) and about 12.5 volts to the rear lead (black/white wire). Is this what they are supposed to be or should they all be around 12.5 volts.

Sounds like there is something wrong with your wiring. It is the orange-white wires that should have the 12+ volts on them. Regardless, the 12.5 volts is good, but you also need to know what the battery voltage was at the same time. Because of the lower voltage on the other coil wire, I am assuming that the bike was running at the time. If it was running, the voltage (at the battery) could have been anywhere between 12 and 15. If it was 12, then you had good voltage at the coils. If it was 15, you have dirty connections somewhere.

The headlight cut off when starting and hi/low beam on when switched to high is awesome and should help me out. I really like the turn signals coming on with the horn as well, this should make riding a little safer out on the mean streets.

The first time I read through this statement, I thought you had some serious problems with your bike's wiring. Then I read it again and realized these were mods you wanted to do.

I have done the headlight cut-out when starting one, but I have not read up on the "hi/low beam on when switched to high". If you mean wiring it so both the high and low beams come on when you select high, please don't. The wiring on the bike just isn't heavy enough for the extra load of having both filaments on at the same time.

About the signals on with the horn ... I have not seen that one, either. Do you mean "signals on with the horn" or "horn on with the signals"? If you intend to have the horn come on with the signals, I think it might be useless and frustrating. Maybe even embarassing. At speed, you signal a lane change. "Beep, beep, beep." Who's going to hear it besides you? Sitting at a light, waiting to turn left. "Beep, beep, beep." Who's going to hear it? EVERYBODY. The person ahead of you might get a little twitterpated about it, too, thinking that you are urging him on.

.

 

[flyanimator]

Sorry Basscliff, you have a coil relay mod link on your page and there is a link to a PDF write up on some other relay mods for our bikes on there by Mr. Matchless (it's the third link on the page.

 

[flyanimator]

Sounds like there is something wrong with your wiring. It is the orange-white wires that should have the 12+ volts on them. Regardless, the 12.5 volts is good, but you also need to know what the battery voltage was at the same time. Because of the lower voltage on the other coil wire, I am assuming that the bike was running at the time. If it was running, the voltage (at the battery) could have been anywhere between 12 and 15. If it was 12, then you had good voltage at the coils. If it was 15, you have dirty connections somewhere.




I have done the headlight cut-out when starting one, but I have not read up on the "hi/low beam on when switched to high". If you mean wiring it so both the high and low beams come on when you select high, please don't. The wiring on the bike just isn't heavy enough for the extra load of having both filaments on at the same time.

About the signals on with the horn ... I have not seen that one, either. Do you mean "signals on with the horn" or "horn on with the signals"? If you intend to have the horn come on with the signals, I think it might be useless and frustrating. Maybe even embarassing. At speed, you signal a lane change. "Beep, beep, beep." Who's going to hear it besides you? Sitting at a light, waiting to turn left. "Beep, beep, beep." Who's going to hear it? EVERYBODY. The person ahead of you might get a little twitterpated about it, too, thinking that you are urging him on.

.

The bike was running when I Checked the voltage to the coils and the battery voltage was around 15v. I will be cleaning up my connections today and adding the relay mod for the coils.


The hi/lo beam on when switched to high is also a relay mod that is explained by Mr. Matchless in his PDF. http://members.dslextreme.com/users...lay_modification_for_bike_v23_byMatchless.pdf

The horn signal light mod is also explained there. the horn does not come on when you signal though. All four signals come on when you use the horn so that who ever you are honking at for cutting you off :lol: sees you as well as hears you. Still not sure if they flash or just stay steady when you hoink though. Either way it should help a little with being visible out on the streets.

 

[Guest]

15 Volts at idle?

 

[flyanimator]

sorry, 12.2 v @ idle, I got the 15v @ about 3500 rpm

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the replies to our questions. :clap:

Before you go to the work of doing the coil relay mod, clean all your connections to see if you get more than 12v at the coils. If you manage to get over 13, you should not really need to do the mod.

As mentioned, I had not seen the other two mods you were considering, so thanks for the explaination on them. The signals-with-the-horn sounds intriguing (have still not looked into it to determine complexity), but I would still advise against having both headlight beams on unless you upgrade the wiring to the headlight.

.

 

[flyanimator]

I had a question about this modification. In the write up it says that the 2 12v orange and white wires operate the switch,thus making it a 2 into 1 connection. and then if you use a dual output relay you can connect the coils independently or if you use the 4 blade relay you connect the output orange/white wires to the same blade on the relay. Is this correct? Just wantedt to make sure before I dive into this. Also does this mean that the same orange/white 12v could feed both coils without the relay modification? Again, just want to make sure I understand correctly. Took an electronics course some time back and I'm just trying to apply what electrical knowledge I have. Thanks for all of your input.
-Rudy

 

[flyanimator]

New problem, now it won't go past 6k rpm

New problem, now it won't go past 6k rpm

This may not be related to my original problem of the rich mixture or the low volatage to the coils, but here it goes. I performed the coil relay mod on my bike AFTER cleaning all the electrical connections with a dremel and a small wire brush attachment and now my bike runs but will not rev past around 6000 rpms. May the modification or another electrical issue have caused this? Just to ad some relevant info; the filter box to carb boots are old and hard so they are not fitted on all the way and ambient air leaks into the carbs. This was present before the previous problem and subsequent actions to correct it but it did rev all the way up to the ~9k rpm redline without a problem (although i rarely take her above 6k rpm). I've read that this problem can present itself when changing to pods on bike with certain kinds of carbs or maybe even all carb'd bikes due to a lack or reduction of vacuume needed for proper carb function. Might this be the case in my situation? This is all under a no load situation (bike is on centre stand). I have not yet tested it on the road to see if power has been affected in any other rev range. Please help!!! Thanks.
-Rudy

 

[Rock]

If the boots for carb air cleaner are bad, the carb intake boots are probably bad as well. I would check them out. I thought mine were good by looking at them while installed but when I removed them and flexed them they were pretty bad.

 

[Steve]

Referencing this picture in the coil mod write-up:

your orange/white wires are the ones that used to go from the kill switch to the coils. Tape off one of the connectors that used to attach to the coils, attach the other one to the relay at #86. This is what will trigger the relay and your reduced voltage from bad connectors will be enough to do it. Connect a ground wire to #85. Connect a new wire (12- or 14-gauge wire) from the battery terminal on the starter solenoid to #30 on the relay. Connect another new wire from #87 to both coils. You can either run two wires to the same terminal on the relay or just daisy-chain them at the coils to keep the long run cleaner. When you turn the key ON, you should hear the relay click. That's all there is to it.

.

 

[flyanimator]

I will check them out today. Could this be causing the problem though?

 

[flyanimator]

Ok, I've got 12.86 v at the battery, 12.86v at the starter relay, and 12.85 v at the coils now with the relay mod. so I know the coils are getting proper voltage. So now that that problem is resolved, what could be causing my engine to refuse to go over 6k rpm?