Going on 11,000 mile trip - suggestions for preparation?

[HiSPL]

One of the big reasons why I want pod filters is not for the performance from better breathing, but rather for how easy it will make it to work on my carbs, and the ability to use what is now the airbox under the seat as a good-sized tool storage compartment.

I do the same thing. I have a good sized tool roll that sits on top of the battery. I also have space for a can of pj1. I wrap the can completely in electrical tape before putting it in there in case it contacts the battery.

What's the procedure for checking coils? My Haynes manual wants me to pay someone to do it. What I've always done to check a coil is to just pull a spark plug, plug it into the wire, ground it on the engine, hit the starter, and notice the size, color, and sound of the spark.

I would not be worried about the coils themselves so much as the plug wires (which are molded into the coils). The wires will rot out and your faced with replacing the coils as a set or jury rigging some new wires onto your old coils.


The lights will kill your charging system.

Hope you have fun...

 

[Anonymous]

OK, I'm trying to figure out this electrical stuff. There seems to be a real consensus among you guys on the effect of mounting driving lights, that it will be too much for the system. I'm inclined to believe that, but I want to know if anyone has some hard numbers on this stuff. What is the alternator output in amps? Does anyone know? If you don't know the alternator output, how can you know what will or won't be too much for the system?

Here's another thing. Having read The Stator Papers, it seems that there are 2 main causes for R/R or stator failure - bad wiring (poor grounds, too much resistance causing heat on the wires) and too much electrical power being created with nowhere for it to go but get dissipated as heat in the R/R heatsink or in the coils of the stator. This excess heat melts and fries the components. That all makes sense to me, but all those problems are caused by too much power floating around in the electrical system with nowhere to go but to create heat in the R/R and stator. Here we are talking about the "bad GS electrics" and how they fry electrical components, because the system is not able to deal with the power from the alternator, and now I'm hearing something nearly opposite about the driving lights consuming too much power. Is the system really that delicate, that it needs to have a certain near-constant load put on it, a bit too little load and it fries the stator, a bit too much load and it drains the battery - is that true? That seems to me what's being said here.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic or prove anyone wrong or anything - I just want to be sure I understand exactly what you're saying and why these things are the case - I want the hard numbers on the alternator output and some explanation of why I read about GS electrics being bad because the alternator power is too much and causes heat, but then I read about the alternator not having enough power for extras like driving lights. Do Goldwings or other big touring bikes like HDs or BMWs have bigger alternators or something? Those guys run tons of extra electrical stuff, seemingly without problems.

I can get a motorcycle headlight for my bike with an H4 halogen bulb from denniskirk.com for $38. I don't need more light, I need the light in a better spread pattern, and it seems that is what argonsagas is saying will be the difference - a better spread pattern on the road. Can anyone else confirm this? I think I'm just about to return my driving lights (which is why I bought them from Walmart - they sell crap but they have a wonderful return policy) and get the H4 headlight. And yes, I will be carrying a full set of replacement bulbs - headlight, tail light, turn signals, etc. I have a good LED flashlight that's waterproof, brighter than a AA maglight, and runs 150 hours on a set of alkaline batteries, so I'm set with that.

HiSPL, you talk about plug wires rotting out - is this visible from the outside? I've seen plenty of bad plug wires, and sometimes they look bad physically, sometimes they look fine physically but the conductor inside is broken. My plug wires and coil look great just from a physical inspection, and they seem to work great too.

Gotta run and keep working on the bike - as I expected, your input has been invaluable. Thanks.

Alex

 

[Planecrazy]

I don't have the hard numbers you're looking for, but tracking the history of the GS series it is considered "common knowledge" after all these years that the system can't handle the kind of load you want to put on it. I know there are several GS gurus who do have the numbers you're looking for -- they should be arriving shortly :lol:

The reason Goldwings sport so many electrical doodads is that they have a second alternator (so I'm told) dedicated to running the accessories. Harleys presumably have a larger alternator than our bikes. Regardless, you're asking your little 550 to do more than its design permits. First timer has a 550e with the H-4 mod, and when we rode together about a month ago my GS1100G stock headlight could not even begin to compare with the blazing spot his H-4 put out -- it lit up the whole road, and not in one small spot!

If you're deadset on using multiple driving lights, the only suggestion I have is to convert EVERY other light on your bike to LED in order to conserve energy. Of course if you do this, you'll also have to replace your turn signal flasher with an electronic unit, because there won't be enough load present for it to flash properly. A side benefit, of course, is that you probably won't ever have to replace those "bulbs" ever again, but the cost is prohibitive. I'd stick with the H-4 mod if I were you and, in fact, I'm planning to do it on my bike very soon.

Regarding the pods, heed the advice given regarding protecting them with a shield. First timer has pods on his 550e, and whenever it rains the bike sputters or dies because of water problems...

Good Luck! When you swing through Chicago feel free to give me a ring if you need anything. I'll PM you my number.

Regards,
Steve 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Well, even without the numbers on alternator output, you guys have convinced me that the differences between the stock sealed beam that I have and the H4 upgrade are the differences I want and was trying to get by installing driving lights, so I shopped around and found JC Whitney selling the 7" headlight with halogen H4 55/60W bulb for $16.99. In my experience with JC Whitney, it's a crapshoot - sometimes you hit crap, sometimes you hit great stuff, but it's always cheap, so I decided to give it a try since it looked identical to the one from Dennis Kirk.

I guess I'll just have to find out about how pod filters and my 4-1 exhaust affect the performance of the bike, and what kind of jetting I'll need to do. With the pod filters on the bike, it'll only take me about 30 minutes to change jet sizes - I can do that on the road if necessary. And about the sheild, I'll just run with it and if I find the outside pods getting wet, I can stop at any old gas station, get a 1-liter pop bottle, drink the pop, cut the bottle in half, zip-tie it on the outside pods, and be on my merry way.

Looking at where I am in preparation and time before I want to leave, I'm realizing I should have started sooner, but that's always the case, and I didn't have the money for bike parts until a week ago. Well, you live and learn, and I'm having a crazy time of it so far.

Alex

 

[argonsagas]

I don't recall the exact numbes, but if you try searching for them, you will find they are already here on the Forum, from older posts.

I had the pleasure of having my daughter ride with me for part of a long trip last year. She had her own bike, only two years old, and fitted with an H-4 bulb. When daylight disappeared, and we were on roads with zero ambient light, her H-4 bulb worked well, but we were the only ones on the road, and the difference in visibility delivered by my xenon bulb, with identical wattage rating, was significant.

Halogen puts out a brighter, and whiter, light than standard incandescent sealed-beam, but the light emitted is still in the yellow range, whereas the xenon bulbs (which often look blue) actually put out a light considerably closer to white. The cleaner output punches farther into the darkness, and lets you see more, and more clearly.

I strongly recommend putting the halogen bulb away as a spare, and buying a xenon one that fits directly into its place. Look for something that is over 5000 degrees Kelvin, which is close to sunlight in delivered colour.


Note, also, that you can buy these bulbs in different wattage ratings. Be careful with going too high. There are obvious benefits in increased light output, but in some areas there are upper limits on wattage on public roads. Worse, the additional wattage is readily seen, so it tends to attract the attention of police. Of reduced concern, higher numbers increase the load on your electrical system and, of even less concern, the additional heat they generate in the headlight shell may shorten bulb life.

Other than those concerns, they are well worth it for improved light output.


Cool the Regulator/Rectifier.

Buy a computer exhaust fan (12 volt) and install it above, on or near your R/R. Wire it to run whenever the bike is running. You could relocate the R/R so that it is exposed to more air flow, but the fan will provide more air than the unit normally gets on most bikes, and that will extends its life.

The additional electrical load is so small it is irrelevant.

 

[HiSPL]

HiSPL, you talk about plug wires rotting out - is this visible from the outside? I've seen plenty of bad plug wires, and sometimes they look bad physically, sometimes they look fine physically but the conductor inside is broken. My plug wires and coil look great just from a physical inspection, and they seem to work great too.

They can have either condition. Rot from the outside in is the most common I've seen. They can lose enough insulation that they will arc to the block before reaching the spark plug. New coils are not that expensive on eBay, and give you the peace of mind that your plug wires are not 20+ years old.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7903137152&category=35617

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10534&item=7903230990&rd=1


Or get one of these and buy any plug wire you want.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7903487253&category=35594&sspagename=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7903349529&category=10066&sspagename=WDVW

 

[earlfor]

I went for a late ride last night (about 200 miles) and the Sylvania Silver Star
60/55 xenon on high beam, lights a path 4 lanes wide and aproximately 450 feet long.

Earl

Halogen puts out a brighter, and whiter, light than standard incandescent sealed-beam, but the light emitted is still in the yellow range, whereas the xenon bulbs (which often look blue) actually put out a light considerably closer to white. The cleaner output punches farther into the darkness, and lets you see more, and more clearly.

 

[earlfor]

Just some comments on GS charging systems........
Automotive charging systems are load regulated. Output is regulated to match demand of accessories and battery state. GS systems are "fixed" output. The stator produces a charging current relative to the rpm/engine speed. The stock stators produce 280 watts at 5000 rpm. Wattage varies with rpm, so at 1000 rpm, output would be 56 watts, 2000-112 watts, 3000-168 watts, etc. Regulator/rectifiers regulate voltage, but not wattage to the battery. A new battery is aproximately 85-90% efficient in accepting a charge. An older battery (still in servicable limits) may be only 70% efficient in accepting a charge. The design point charging voltage of R/R's is about 14.7 volts. This is the upper limit and if your R/R charges at a rate greater than that, it is faulty and should be replaced. A fully charged new battery will show about 12.8 volts after it has "settled" for a bit.
87% efficiency at an electrical charging pressure of 14.7 volts would result in a battery level of about 12.8 volts ...depending on battery and wiring harness condition.

I dont consider the GS charging system to be delicate, but it is an unregulated, load balanced system and consequently operates correctly within a narrow set of parameters. Too much draw and the battery will not be charged. Too little draw and the battery will be overcharged. Slight amounts of excess charging current can be shunted to ground and disappated through the R/R cooling fins as heat. It is why you do not want to cruise with your headlight off (among other reasons )

Also, the harness wiring and lighting switch are not sized to carry an additional 110 watts of driving lights. It would be necessary to run wiring and switches for that addition rather than piggybacking the load onto a circuit that is already operating near max capacity.

In looking up accessories/lighting wattages in my Suzuki manual, average electrical load with a 60/55 headlight is aprox 90 watts plus engine, plus harness/switches resistances, plus use of turn signals and any running lights. My estimation is that aprox 125 watts is needed to run the electricals and overcome 20 year old harness resistances plus the engine's requirements. From experience with a dead stator and lights off running on battery alone , beginning with a half charged battery, the engine will run for aprox 30 minutes. If we assume there were aprox 5 amps usable in the battery, that would be a power consumption of 60 watts or so.
Total electrical consumption would then be about 185 watts. If we take a total output of 280 watts @87% charging efficiency. we find we have 243 watts available. That leaves 37 watts going to battery, or about 3 amps.

****(edit)..... 243 watts available and using 185 leaves 58 watts and not 37 as I had stated. I'll leave the following numbers though as that does not alter the point I was trying to make******

This assumes all operation is above 5000 rpm and we have maximaum charging current always available. You can see that since the stator is producing 56 watts per 1000 rpm, then a reduction in rpm from 5000 to 4400 will result in a charge rate to the battery of zero. Below that rpm, the system will be operating at a loss. Due to variances I cant be more precise than that, but at least this demonstrates the situation. 4400 would be perfect rpm (based on my numbers). All electrical demands would be met, the battery would be maintained and there would be no current shunted to ground by the R/R and no excess heat.

The system needs to remain electrically balanced. That is why I do not use LED tail light or running lights. The energy I would save would need to be shunted to ground and that heats up the R/R. The ideal is to consume all the output with just enough left over the keep the battery charged.

Earl

 

[Planecrazy]

Thanks for the primer, Earl! I knew the "cavalry" would be around to help out here soon!

I have contemplated putting LED bulbs on the bike to increase visibility in the rear, but after reading your in-depth explanation of how the charging system works and what it requires in terms of load, I think I may hold off until I can plan a conversion that maintains the "desired" load while still incorporating the LED's.

Regards,
Steve 8)

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Wow, lots of replies so I could'nt read them all. You have lots of advice regarding the electrical system.
I did notice you want to switch to pipe/pods and mainly because the carbs would be easier to work on in case of a problem. If the carbs were cleaned/synched and the floats adjusted, and the tank flushed, you should have no problems.
Even if you had some dirt get into them from the gas tank, a stubby screwdriver would allow you to remove just the float bowls and fix most fuel flow problems.
Installing the pods will require re-jetting and you really don't have time.
If you put off re-jetting and try to run the bike, I CAN GUARANTEE you will run too lean and overheat the motor. On a trip like that, I'm talking pre-ignition of the plugs and holes in the pistons. You'll never complete the trip.
And please don't think you can just put in a larger main jet and go. You'll have to change the mains, needle positions, and pilot circuit. Do yourself a favor and stay with the stock set up until you have more time to do a good jetting job.

 

[earlfor]

Steve, if I wanted to increase rearward visibility, I would add LED lights and keep the stock lighting. The slight increase in draw of LED's probably would not be enough to cause a problem. LED's usually consume aprox 10% of what a filament bulb would use. Bulb tail lights are 8 watts, so a pair of additional LED tail lights would only add 1.6 watts which is about the same as one of your dash light bulbs. Go for it....she be jus fine.

Earl

Thanks for the primer, Earl! I knew the "cavalry" would be around to help out here soon!

I have contemplated putting LED bulbs on the bike to increase visibility in the rear, but after reading your in-depth explanation of how the charging system works and what it requires in terms of load, I think I may hold off until I can plan a conversion that maintains the "desired" load while still incorporating the LED's.

Regards,
Steve 8)

 

[Planecrazy]

My only issue is wanting to keep the bike looking more or less stock, so I was planning to replace the original filament bulbs with LED plug-in replacements ... obviously I can't have them both in at the same time, but I might break down and just add additional housings and LED's as you suggest...

Now if you really want a challenge, check out my latest plea for help in the Tech Forum ... I've got a doozy of a mystery waiting for you there... see "I GIVE UP ..."

Regards,
Steve 8)

 

[earlfor]

Dennis Kirk sells surface mount marker lights (with either a red or amber lens) that are large enough to put LED tail light size bulbs into. I am using a couple now as front running lights. You could piggyback the LED onto the tail light wiring. Not enough draw to be a problem on the wiring or switch.

Earl

My only issue is wanting to keep the bike looking more or less stock, so I was planning to replace the original filament bulbs with LED plug-in replacements ... obviously I can't have them both in at the same time, but I might break down and just add additional housings and LED's as you suggest...

Now if you really want a challenge, check out my latest plea for help in the Tech Forum ... I've got a doozy of a mystery waiting for you there... see "I GIVE UP ..."

Regards,
Steve 8)

 

[RacingJake]

Priceline

Sorry guys I just could'nt past this one up

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, again, thanks for all the replies.

Earl, you have given me all the numbers and explanation I was looking for, and I feel like I have a decent understanding of how the charging system works. The key for me was that I was comparing it to what I know of car systems, and didn't know that motorcycle systems (at least on my bike) are fixed output. That makes most everything else fall into place. I also assumed the output to be capable of at least 300 watts, figuring it to be half what my Geo is (the motor is half the size). Having those numbers and explanation makes it all fit in my head.

Yeah, delicate is the word I used, but really I meant that it requires a narrow set of conditions to run right. Car systems, being regulated, can stand a good bit of extra current draw, or very little, and be fine, but I guess my motorcycle can't - it needs a certain RPM, load, and battery condition for everything to be happy all at once. Since I've already been convinced about the differences in the light (and I know what color temperature is and what difference it makes - my LED flashlight puts out less light than my AA maglight, but it's far easier to see things and especially read text at a distance with the LED) I already got the H4 conversion, and will get a Silverstar and use the included halogen as backup.

I'm missing the right side cover on my bike and have no intention to replace it since it seems you can't get it for under $40 on eBay (indeed, at that price I considered selling my left side cover to make my bike symmetrical and get a bunch of money) so my electrical stuff, including the R/R heatsink, is already out in the wind, no need for a cooling fan. It's mounted with the heatsink facing backwards, though, and I might try to turn it around for better cooling. I'm glad someone suggested just installing some sort of extra cooling for the R/R as a cheap fix, since I had thought that sounded like a good idea also. Having built a lot of computers and read a lot about heatsink/fans for CPUs, I'm used to thinking "well, if it makes more heat, just get a bigger heatsink or more airflow" when coming to this stuff.

My bike runs at 5500 in 6th gear at 75mph, and with the new 16/50 sprockets I'm getting to replace the worn out stock 15/50 I have, I expect to run 5,000 or 5,100 at the same speed, and given that I expect to be around 5,000 most of the time, using basically the stock amount of power draw, I think it'll be fine. Since I have the bike half-apart right now, I'm going through all the non-soldered electrical connections and cleaning them and spraying with water-resistant connection helper. I'm also replacing the ground wire to the battery as it's a hacked wire right now.

Keith, I've read a lot of your posts about the carbs, and you seem to know everything there is to know about carbs, pipes, pods, spark plug color, etc, so I hate to say this, but my roomate says in all the 30 motorcycles he's owned and hundreds he's worked on as a professional mechanic, he's installed pods and pipes etc and never re-jetted and never experienced it running too lean. I was trying to find a place that stocks jets around here and he said why bother? I said if I use stock jets with pods and new pipes it'll run lean and hot and burn exhaust valves and pistons (echoing what's been said here). He said he'd love to see it run lean, he's never seen a bike run lean enough to actually make that kind of excess heat. And why would I not be able to play with the jetting on the road? As you said, I'll be able to remove the float bowls by themselves easily, and I'll also be able to change main jets easily. Are you saying that I wouldn't notice the extra heat until it's too late? I don't want to contradict what you say about the jetting and consequences of it, but my roomate recommends me to just carry a few sizes bigger jets and see how it goes, and I've never known his advice about anything mechanical to be bad.

My carbs are in a plastic bag in the garage and I'm about to take them apart and clean everything real well and put them back together, and then do a bunch of other stuff that's waiting to be done on the bike. Keep talking!

Alex

 

[earlfor]

One of my least favorite things to do on vacation is have to stop and work on the bike everyday because it isnt running right. I would take Keith's advice and make the trip with it stock and do any mods when I returned. Keith knows what he's talking about. I too worked for a motorcycle dealer and was/am a factory trained and certified mech. Your friend's experience is the opposite of mine. Go with Keith. Also, experience on new bikes with CPU controlled injection etc doesnt count. In fact, only experience on old GS'S counts for this situation.

Earl

Keith, I've read a lot of your posts about the carbs, and you seem to know everything there is to know about carbs, pipes, pods, spark plug color, etc, so I hate to say this, but my roomate says in all the 30 motorcycles he's owned and hundreds he's worked on as a professional mechanic, he's installed pods and pipes etc and never re-jetted and never experienced it running too lean.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

A "Professional" mechanic, and he says re-jetting for pod filters and pipes is not necessary? I'm not trying to be a smart-a## but that's at least a tie for the dumbest thing I've ever heard regarding motors. Unbelievable.
Go visit any website and read about jetting and how it effects combustion.
If you increase the air intake and do nothing to the jets supplying fuel, then you'll have a lean mixture. Lean mixtures run hotter. The fuel itself acts as a coolant. Less fuel in the mixture, less coolant. Lean mixtures combust too easily and will cause pre-ignition in severe cases. The valves burn, etc. It's just the way it is.
I don't care how many bikes he says he's worked on, he's wrong. You CAN get away with a lean running motor if you don't ride it in extreme conditions. The life of the engine will suffer, but you can get away with it usually. But drastically increasing the air intake with pod filters and no jet changes, and then going on an 11,000 mile trip is a perfect way to overheat the motor. I could go on and on, but you'll probably just believe your mechanic. But try looking up a good website on jetting and see if you still believe him.
And like I said before, you can't just take off and decide to install a larger main when you want and make everything fine. At the throttle position you'll be running at, the needle jet circuit is what the bike is running on, and some "overlap" from the pilot circuit jetting. For this, you have to remove the tank, carbs, and adjust the needles. Nobody starts re-jetting on the side of the road on a long trip.
Would someone else do this member a favor and tell him about jetting? Maybe if a few of us agree, he'll stop listening to this mechanic.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, I've got the carbs apart for cleaning/adjustment, and the needle settings were in the middle (of 5 settings) with a fat nylon washer above and a thin nylon washer below the little clip on the needle. I moved the clip to the bottom setting (2 below where I found it) and kept the nylon washers in the same place. There's a little junk in there, mostly gas varnish, which comes off and out of the little passageways easily. I'll blow it out with compressed air before reassembly.

Why does it take so long to get the jetting right after changing the flow properties (pods and pipe) ? Can't you tell relatively immediately from the spark plugs if it's running rich or lean, and then swap jets and ride 30 minutes and pull the plugs again? Why can't it take a day or 2 to get the jetting right? Even adjusting the needle settings doesn't take too long to do twice or 3 times between riding it in one day.

I don't want to disrespect anyone or their advice, but I'm hearing opposite things from 2 sources I would typically trust for this kind of information, so I want to make sure I understand how it works and what I need to do before taking off. I really appreciate your experience on these bikes and your input, and I want to do "the right thing" for my bike, which will probably be what you say - I just need to get this all understood now before I leave. Thanks again.

Alex

 

[crc1214]

DUCT TAPE, ENOUGH WATER TO LAST YOU A DAY, SALT, A CELL PHONE, AND FIX-A-FLAT.

Good luck on your trip. I too have a 78 GS550E that I just purchased in February!!!!! If you by chance get into Ohio give me a shout. 614-595-3651. I'll show you some roads in southern Ohio that will give you a work-out. Just got back today from about 60 miles of some of the windiest roads through some of the most beautiful country in the mid-west.

Oh-by the way... definetely change your wheel and swingarm bearings. Cheap and well worth the trouble.

Also... sprocket sizes and chain sizes are of constant debate on the 78 GS550E. Stock is 15 front , 50 back. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Also, the standard size chain is 530-110 links. Some suppliers list 112 links, others 108 links, others 116 links. 110 LINKS!!!!!!

You will find out that for the most part, yes, 77-79 GS550 / and GS550E parts are interchangeable. But the 78 has some quircky parts that just aren't the same as the other GS550's from the time period.

Also, don't be freaked out by the emblem that says GS550 (without the E) on your sidecovers. The "E" didn't appear on the sidecovers until the 79 model year

Also, the 78 GS550E was only made for a short while, then the 79's came out. What we have are what I consider to be some rather rare bikes.

Enjoy your road trip. Again, call me if your in the area. I'm sure we'll be chatting back and forth on this forum for years to come about our 78's.

Good luck,

Chad
1978 GS550E, Columbus,OH

 

[earlfor]

Ok, here is a brief breakdown of the overlaps of the various carb stages.
http://204.71.0.3/motoprof/moto/mcycle/carb101/carb101.html
It could take a half dozen or more sets of main jets to find the appropriate size. Sizing the mains is the beginning and the simplest part. Also, you will need to vacuum synch the carbs.

Earl

Why does it take so long to get the jetting right after changing the flow properties (pods and pipe) ? Can't you tell relatively immediately from the spark plugs if it's running rich or lean