GS 450 Lights/Voltage

[vivisected]

So, I just spent 8 hours fixing up the old gal, including a valve adjustment, which by the way, cleared the surging issue right up and made the bike like much much faster (no kidding, didnt know that tiny engine could haul my fat butt quite so fast).
One of the things i worked on was re soldering a wire to the Side stand switch relay connector. I had done this before with no problem some time last year when one of the other wires broke. Turned the key to power on, then hit the start button and -CLICK- power goes completely out. Turn the key to the off position then back on and the power and lights were back on. Tried the starter again and once again just a click and power off. So i turned the key off yet another time and back on. Pushed the button and the same click.
Turned the key off and on again, but the power doesnt come back on. Tried this another 5 times still with no power, figured i blew a fuse.
Check the fuse and it was good.
Got out the multimeter and check the battery - fine, 12 volts or so.
Still no power (i mean nothin, no lights, no dummy indicators, no nothing)
Fooled around for about 15 minutes, and then, when I went to check one of the wires to the side stand switch relay with the multimeter, the power came back on!
So i decide to try and start one more time and she turned over just fine.
Rode it around a bit (its dark by now and now the lights (which would indicate the voltage) fluctuates when give it throttle. I gets pretty bright, brighter then it ran before.
BTW the reason i kept turning the key off and back on and would try to start is that sometimes, when it rains, water would get on top of the side stand switch relay, and cause the same power cut off when i hit the start switch problem.
All i would have to do then is flick the relay a few times to get the water out and then turn the key off and back on which would give it power again, and then it would start right up.
Normally i wouldnt try to start it so many times if it kept making the power go out, but since i had that rain issue before, i tried it a few times (hoping it would work)

So (wow long post) I figure, that when I kept trying to start up the bike, that this time I damaged the rectifier some, and maybe the diode pack.
Does this sound correct?
Is there a cheaper replacement rectifier (i used to use a 4 dollar rat shack one for my ct90 and that worked like a charm) then 167 bucks?
I rode the bike around for atleast 15 minutes, and besides the brightening and dimming of the lights, it rode great. Didnt blow any fuses or anything.
Im itchin to take it out to an appointment tomorrow (thats why i worked so long on it today), do you think i could get away with a 20mi each way ride without having to worry about the rectifier failing or damaging any other electrical components (my common sense is screaming at me not to take it out, but i just had to wait 2 weeks for parts!)
Sorry for the giant post
Thanks

 

[Guest]

First of all, well done on the valve adjustment! I've seen so many positive results on here from this that I can't wait to get on mine again and see if it's better than I remembered (I never knew I needed to adjust them when I was riding it).

If I was you, I'd disconnect the side stand switch and get it out of the loop altogether.

As to the lights dimming etc., you're probably best off going through the stator papers and checking the charging system out completely.

If you get too much voltage into your harness, it seems that the 450 ignitors are prone to failing, and they're getting hard to find in good working order.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Check your wiring again around your solder job. Something sounds loose. I like the suggestion of just defeating the side stand switch to take it out of the circuit. Go through the Stator Papers to troubleshoot the charging system before you start spending money on parts. If you need a regulator/rectifier, then there's a member here named duaneage who has a sweet deal on r/r units. Send him a PM or see his ad in the "Parts and Services" section: Honda RR Kits.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[vivisected]

Aww, i kinda like the side stand switch theres been more then a few times ive tried to ride off with the stand down
anyways
Thanks for the info
ohh, dont worry about finding another ignitor, bikebandit has one for $434

 

[Guest]

Aww, i kinda like the side stand switch theres been more then a few times ive tried to ride off with the stand down
anyways
Thanks for the info
ohh, dont worry about finding another ignitor, bikebandit has one for $434

If you prefer it there, then that's cool, just make sure it's reliable. If necessary, replace any connectors with shiny new ones and use dialectric grease to help the connectors stop corroding.

That's cheap for a genuine ignitor! Flaming Chainsaws paid $500 not so long ago...

 

[vivisected]

That's cheap for a genuine ignitor! Flaming Chainsaws paid $500 not so long ago...

WOW is there any after market ones? :crosses fingers:
or can i change the whole ingnition out to accomodate another type of ignitor?

 

[vivisected]

ok, so i did the check list/trouble shooting chart in the stator papers.
Stator is good
The voltage is fairly stable, even when i rev it up high (my damn tach is broken) but every once in a while it will shoot up to like 18.50 ish volts and scare the crap out of me! maybe for a few seconds every couple minutes or so.
Also redid the connector for the sidestand relay with crip on connectors instead of trying to solder the old single block type connector back on. To no avail, same voltage spike issue.
I then checked the regulator/rectifier and when i tried the red lead of the multimeter to the red lead of the rr and the black to the yellow wires, i get no reading (OL on the multimeter, yes i did remember to set it to diode) on any of the yellow wires (well, really the rectifier leads, not wires, but you get the idea)
When i reverse it and put the black lead of the mm on the red wire of the rr and try the yellow leads with the black lead of the mm, i get the correct (.5v i beleive) reading on all three.
So i moved on to the rr's negative lead with the red multimeter lead. Same deal, no reading for all three yellow wires when connected to the mm's black lead. but then when i reverse it, i get the correct .5v again.
I would think that only one or two of the leads wouldnt respond if it was the rectifier and the bike was still running relitivly normal, is this the way the rr is sposed to be on a gs? or is it busted?
If i do replace the rr, should i replace the side stand relay aswell, as not to blow up the new rr?
Which wires should i connect together to bypass the side stand relay (im pretty sure the orange, orange and orange/blue wire should all be connected together, but where should i put the green? just blunt it off and forget about i?)
Thanks

 

[tom203]

If you're seeing voltage rising to 18.5 volts at times, something is wrong- might be loose wiring or a bad R/R. The R/R has to see battery voltage consistently, or it can't decide what to do. Typically, a poor ground connection from R/R to battery negative causes problems. Your diode checking sounds ok, but there are other gizmos in R/R that can fail. As Basscliff said, member duaneage has quality used R/R's for sale if you narrow the problem down to the regulator itself.

 

[Guest]

Going by your side stand switch connection issues, I'd start with connections and grounds first.

Clean everything, replace connectors if necessary.

Some people use dialectric grease to help prevent corrosion too.

See if you can get the ground for your R/R on the battery negative directly.

 

[vivisected]

Going by your side stand switch connection issues, I'd start with connections and grounds first.

Yeah, when i was checking the charging system when it was on and connected i pushed the red lead of my mm up the bottom of the red wire on the rr connector and that caused it to conk out after enough wiggling around (do the weird turn off with no power thing) so it may very well be a bad connection to the rr or dirt on the rr connectors

Clean everything, replace connectors if necessary.

always a good idea, the rr connectors looked a little dirty, esp. the pos red lead

Some people use dialectric grease to help prevent corrosion too.

another good idea

See if you can get the ground for your R/R on the battery negative directly.

will definantly try that out, sounds like a good idea.

 

[Guest]

Good luck, hopefully that sorts it and you'll have trouble free electrics

The other more extreme option is to make up a new harness with new weather proof connectors etc.

Something I've contemplated but so far have resisted...

 

[vivisected]

The other more extreme option is to make up a new harness with new weather proof connectors etc.

ah i would LOVE to do that, but its seems like such an undertaking! do you know of any good guides on the subject?
I also have an old ct90 with buku electrical issues that i really need to do that to

 

[Guest]

There have been a few on here along the way, the one that comes to mind right now is Posplayers' minimal diagram he did for a 550.

Do a search and you should find it, he did it for another member on here.

Note there's no indicators etc. on it, just the basics to get it running.

 

[wayfast73]

My harley had that happen, it turned out the negative battery wire had a break inside the insulation. I was doing the same thing your doing and going over everything until i bumped the wire with my hand and figured it out.

 

[Steve]

Don't worry about the sidestand issue, THERE IS NO RELAY IN THE SIDESTAND CIRCUIT.

The sidestand will also NOT affect your charging issues. It only turns on the light in the instrument panel.

When you check the diodes in the R/R, you are only checking the RECTIFIER portion of the R/.
The /R is the REGULATOR, basically the only way to check that is to run the bike.

Intermittent voltage spikes could be intermittent connections between the R/R and the wiring harness. Most common is a bad ground, as the R/R is typically "grounded" to the battery box, but it's rubber-mounted, so there is another wire that connects it to the chassis. It is better to have a single wire do the job, and to have it connected either to a known-good chassis point or directly to the battery.

If you do some further testing and find for sure that the R/R is faulty, contact member Duaneage. He has some Honda R/Rs that work better than the Suzuki models. I think his current price is $45, and I think that includes shipping, but check with him to be sure.

.

 

[vivisected]

i ordered one from him this morning. In no way does this stop the investigating, but for $45, i figured its better to have one around and replace the r/r after i redo some connects then to have the ignitor go out due to high voltage.

 

[vivisected]

My harley had that happen, it turned out the negative battery wire had a break inside the insulation. I was doing the same thing your doing and going over everything until i bumped the wire with my hand and figured it out.

Thanks for the info, ill check that closely.

 

[vivisected]

Don't worry about the sidestand issue, THERE IS NO RELAY IN THE SIDESTAND CIRCUIT.

??? Ummm then whats the relay i pulled on the right side twords the front (under the cover ofcoarse)
My schems say that there is one.

The sidestand will also NOT affect your charging issues. It only turns on the light in the instrument panel.

Which light on the instrument panel? I think we might be talking about a different bike/model. I have a gs450LJ, when I kick the sidestand down it cuts the engine if the bike is in any gear besides neutral, and no light comes on or turns off.