GS1100E trouble

[Guest]

1983 GS1100E

Charging system failed and was corrected with a new Regulator. That fixed worked just fine, but i don't remember if it was weeks or months after, but suddenly after warm up and riding down the street heading to a gas station, it started running rough, barley running. Limped it back home.

Checked plugs, confirmed gap and confirmed spark on all cylinders. It would barley start and run, acting like an extreme lean condition. Full choke, it would run but sounds like its miss firing. IF you close the choke, it stalls, if you open throttle, it stalls or stumbles. Coils, plug wires are good, Signal Generator tested good, testing the igniter i was not confident of my results. Can you still get spark with a fault igniter? Battery is questionable at this point.

Took off carbs, did the customary clean out of all passages and what not. replaced the inline fuel filter. Checked for vacuum leaks, around boots. Boots are new or newer. Same results. Not sure if i am dealing with Ignition or fuel issue. I only thought of ignition because it came on so sudden and extreme. Any Suggestions?

 

[fastbysuzuki]

You say the battery is questionable then do the tests. https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...System-QUICK-TEST/page9&p=1272192#post1272192. Post the results

Depending on the results it may be prudent to run the stator test https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...-Charging-System-Health&p=1138531#post1138531. Post the results.

you mention you have put in a new inline filter these usually cause problems as the gs' s run a gravity fuel system and inline filters do not allow enough fuel to pass through for correct running.

You could check the voltage at the coils as the igniter likes to see 12v. If you are getting spark on all four plugs then it's likely the igniter is ok not to long ago there was a post recommending that removing the screw that secure the igniter and giving them a good clean as one of them is an earth on the igniter.

 

[Guest]

You say the battery is questionable then do the tests. https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...System-QUICK-TEST/page9&p=1272192#post1272192. Post the results

My battery is toast as suspected, going to replace it, then run the stator test to just cross that off the list.

you mention you have put in a new inline filter these usually cause problems as the gs' s run a gravity fuel system and inline filters do not allow enough fuel to pass through for correct running.

I've has problems with this issue in the past when i purchased back in 2002, but i just replaced it and it ran fine, so when i ran into this current problem, i replaced it but ran it without the filter too with the same results to confirm this was not a factor. Currently i am testing with a motion pro external tank to run the bike tank less without any filter in place.

Thanks for your input. I'll report back with more results

 

[Guest]

With a new battery, fully charged

Key off 12.98V
Key on 12.2
Idle 12.7
2500 13.09
5000 Does not run well enough to get there.

 

[posplayr]

With a new battery, fully charged

Key off 12.98V
Key on 12.2
Idle 12.7
2500 13.09
5000 Does not run well enough to get there.

seems to be charging; check again after it is running.

 

[Tom R]

Are you sure the petcock is flowing fuel?

 

[Guest]

yes. fuel delivery is fine

 

[fixmybrokecomputer]

Physically clean all relevant electrical connections. Couple of years ago, I had a problem like this. It was crappy electrical connections. I bought everything to do the carbs, including intake and airbox boots. Thankfully discovered the real cause before I tore the carbs off. There is some stuff called NO-OX-ID that I learned about from a former tech editor "Man Of Blues", over on the Concours Owners Group. "NO-OX-ID A-Special electrical conductive paste is recommended by connector manufacturers for trouble-free joint connections." This would help keep the connections free of corrosion while also aiding conduction.https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html

 

[posplayr]

Physically clean all relevant electrical connections. Couple of years ago, I had a problem like this. It was crappy electrical connections. I bought everything to do the carbs, including intake and airbox boots. Thankfully discovered the real cause before I tore the carbs off. There is some stuff called NO-OX-ID that I learned about from a former tech editor "Man Of Blues", over on the Concours Owners Group. "NO-OX-ID A-Special electrical conductive paste is recommended by connector manufacturers for trouble-free joint connections." This would help keep the connections free of corrosion while also aiding conduction.https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html

Many times these bikes have been sitting for years if not for decades. It worth stripping off the harness of the bike if doing a major refurb, or just the key connectors.

For charging all connections between the battery and the R/R are paramount (this includes the fusebox) and these connections must be maintained very clear or else you will get reduced charging.

A headlamp connector can reduce the voltage to your headlamp but it will not affect charging. No reason not to make sure those major current load connections are also clean.

You should clean all the contacts prior to applying grease. DeOxit is an excellent prep and then to apply the dielectric grease.

If the contacts are green then you need something like the naval jelly for a few minutes then flush with water. Don't let it sit too long it will be messy to clean up (1/2 hour is getting too long and there is a danger of it drying up).

Most of the problem corrosion is actually inside of the crimps and not the exposed contact blades. This is why the DeOxit that is a very thin liquid can penetrate into the crimps. Slathering grease on a wire crimp will do nothing to get at the corrosion inside.

If you have dirty crimp contacts for charging then you clean and use liquid flux to flow small amounts of solder into the crimp to block any further corrion build up. If they are really old this may still be dificult and you might have to just cur them off and relay. This is really not necessary for anything else unless it is the headlamp.

You can take aa lotof strain off the wiring by going to LED headlamp and signal lamps.

If it is old, I always go naval jelly, DeOxit then so grease.


https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...g-Electrical-Connenctions&highlight=corrosion


Interesting factoid about dielectric grease.

Falicy of adding metals to increase conductivity:


Many electrical contact greases have copper, zinc or other metals blended into a grease to increase conductivity. In a study for an aerospace company in 1985 it was concluded that putting metal into grease does not help conductivity. In many cases it reduces conductivity. The United States Department of the Interior Bureau of Reclamation states in their Facilities instruction Journal Volume 3-3 Electrical Connections for Power Circuits in section 6.3.2that, "Use of grease with embedded zinc particles will cause a poorer connection due to the lower conductivity of zinc".

Aluminum Oxide is one of the hardest substances known to man, just softer than diamonds. Zinc is not able to cut or dissolve aluminum oxide either. The aluminum oxide that typically forms on an aluminum connection is only 50-120 angstroms thick. Sanchem's NO-OX-ID penetrates the oxide film by the chemical action of our corrosion inhibitor system.

 

[Roger P.]

I'd pull the igniter connector and make sure all the connections are clean and tight. My 1100E would die without warning until I cleaned up all of the pins and pinched the female bullet connectors a bit tighter.

 

[Guest]

When you leave the key on, on the coils the white ground wire is active, the coil gets warm, the other side stays cool and the black/orange ground stays inactive. active meaning with a tester between the white ground and positive it shows voltage, while the other side does not unless you test with an alternative ground. Is this an indicate a problem? Faulty igniter? I do get spark on each plug.

 

[tom203]

When you leave the key on, on the coils the white ground wire is active, the coil gets warm, the other side stays cool and the black/orange ground stays inactive. active meaning with a tester between the white ground and positive it shows voltage, while the other side does not unless you test with an alternative ground. Is this an indicate a problem? Faulty igniter? I do get spark on each plug.

Sounds normal..with key on, voltage is applied to the coils. The ignitor will allow current to flow thru one ignition coil...so that coil will get warm. The spark at plugs is made when this current flow is interupted suddenly- the signal coils trigger the ignitor for this event.

 

[Guest]

i thought it was just the opposite. There is no voltage to the coils until the signal generator completes the signal with a very fast completion of the circuit via the negative ground.

 

[tom203]

i thought it was just the opposite. There is no voltage to the coils until the signal generator completes the signal with a very fast completion of the circuit via the negative ground.

Nope...its just like a contact point setup: spark occurs when points are suddenly opened . This is a very simple electronic ignition

 

[Guest]

Showing 10.5 volts to the igniter. I assume it would prefer to run with 12V? I've hit all the connections but did not review the kill switch on the bars?

 

[tom203]

That's too low to make ignitor happy...recheck/clean connections .

 

[Guest]

All the connections has been cleaned and reviewed. I pulled the head lamp, voltage jumped up to 11.53V, reading over 12V when running, but still runs like crap.

 

[tom203]

Do you have this style ignitor (see link)?
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/suzuki/motorcycle/1983/gs1100e/signal-generator

If yes, this style seems very reliable - unless it gets fried by a overcharging r/r.
Your reported charging numbers are low....it should be higher especially with headlight off. For now, I'd go back to basics and check the ignition system...have a look at this link. Skip the ignitor test in step 14

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/electrical_odd-n-ends.html#A17

 

[Guest]

Yep, that's my igniter. before i ran into this problem my charging system had failed. I replaced the the regulator with a Honda unit and the system was working great again. it was so long ago, i don't remember the numbers so i can't really compare from then to now. Even before the charging problem i had done the coil relay mod. I wondered if the Honda regulator may ha caused another issue. It was like a switch was flipped one day, started it up, warmed up, drove maybe 1/4 mile and then it ran like crap and i almost did not make it home, never been the same.

 

[tom203]

"into this problem my charging system had failed. I replaced the the regulator with a Honda unit and the system was working great again"

maybe this new r/r has overwhelmed the old stator- which might be shorting out as rpms pick up causing poor output . Remember the r/r can't perform right with a weak stator which your reported numbers suggest .
Is this Honda r/r the kind with sense wire? If so ,where did you connect the sense wire?