Head gasket GS1000G questions

[Suzuki_Don]

Hi Andre. See pic below. this is one of the 650 barrels I have for the conversion. You are right there is no depression or groove for the "O" ring to sit.

It runs with a standard head gasket arrangement. No washers on corner studs either I think. I am waiting on my gasket set for the 650 to arrive from the U.S. But the corner holes in the pics I have seen do not look large enough to take any crushable washers on the corner studs.

Another matter of interest on the 650 also is that the corner holes in the cylinder base gasket are round and not oval as on the low pressure oiling system motors like we have.

 

[Matchless]

Don,
After seeing this I had a quick look at some other models and it seems as if the o-ring was dropped on some 1100's as well. Be interesting to see if your Vesra is also a MLS.
I have my new rings and just need to set the end gaps. I found quite an ingenius method to grind them down on a website.

 

[catbed]

so should i remove the oring in my engine? i did notice low cold compression in the middle two cylinders. 115 95 95 115 from 1 to 4. could this be the cause?

 

[Matchless]

so should i remove the oring in my engine? i did notice low cold compression in the middle two cylinders. 115 95 95 115 from 1 to 4. could this be the cause?

catbed,
No, definitely do not remove the o-ring. It also should not affect your compression, this is just the seal around the cam chain. It seems as if the type of headgasket is also important and whether your head/cylinder is designed with a slot/groove for such a seal.
OK if your head gasket is leaking from the cylinders then you may have a problem but this may not be related. At this stage no-one is sure that omitting these o-rings when using the latest MLS gaskets is correct, we are just throwing ideas around in the hope that someone in the know pops in and gives us some guidance.

 

[Art Lacroix]

Here's a handy reference

Here's a handy reference

http://alpha-sports.com/spst/1980 GS1000G/12.gif

Art

 

[Art Lacroix]

with parts list

with parts list

http://alpha-sports.com/spst/1980 GS1000G/12.htm

works better with the parts list. The 4 copper crush washers are listed as "gaskets" & they go on the corners under the acorn nuts, the rest of the head nuts get washers.

Art

 

[Matchless]

Art,
Thanks for your input, the parts list actually only refers to the OEM gaskets and they definitely had a cut out and work in conjunction with the o-ring gasket. The acorn nuts take the 4 solid copper washers, but in addition to those there are also 4 hollow round copper crush washers. The newer after market head gaskets are diffferent to the older OEM as shown in the parts list and that is actually what we are trying to get clarity on.
But thanks, any input is appreciated.

 

[Guest]

so, matchless, where're you at?
cant think for too long...gotta ride that thing! :-D



seriously, it's a pain when you cant get a reliable info on something that important :-s
i struggled with a similar issue myself

.

 

[Matchless]

so, matchless, where're you at?
cant think for too long...gotta ride that thing! :-D

seriously, it's a pain when you cant get a reliable info on something that important :-s
i struggled with a similar issue myself

.

Motor top end is apart and I am waiting for the piston circlips. Have also sent a mail to Athena, noticed they have opened it, but whether they will reply is another matter.
I will most probably pull the bottom end out of the frame to clean it up properly and spray the frame.
So I have time, and still hoping someone with practical experience on these head gaskets will chime in soon.
If nothing further is revealed I will install the new MLS head gasket without the o-ring.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Hey Andre I have my Norton for sale and as we have spoken about it a few times I thought I would let you know so you could have a look at it. If you search on EBAY under key words "Norton Dominator 500" you can have a squiz at it.
Cheers
Don

 

[Matchless]

Hey Andre I have my Norton for sale and as we have spoken about it a few times I thought I would let you know so you could have a look at it. If you search on EBAY under key words "Norton Dominator 500" you can have a squiz at it.
Cheers
Don

Don,
Cannot find it, is it already sold then?
I have managed to find a set of 1.0 oversize rings that are on their way from the USA for the GS1000. Piston circlips were available locally to the surprise of the local Suzuki agent himself. I also found that Honda use the same circlips for the piston pins, just go to your lawnmower supplies guy.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don,
Cannot find it, is it already sold then?
I have managed to find a set of 1.0 oversize rings that are on their way from the USA for the GS1000. Piston circlips were available locally to the surprise of the local Suzuki agent himself. I also found that Honda use the same circlips for the piston pins, just go to your lawnmower supplies guy.

Could it be possible that you can't see it if it is only being sold in Oz on EBAY and not worldwide. Maybe that's what happened.

 

[Matchless]

Don,
I found it. Only seen if I log into ebay.com.au, not on .com worldwide. I think it is because you are only selling in OZ and advertising for pickup only.

It looks very good and made me think back to my AJS and my oil soaked jeans. They used to say if a British bike does not leak oil, its a fair warning that it needs some urgently!

I hope you find a good home for it!

 

[doctorgonzo]

Don,
I found it. Only seen if I log into ebay.com.au, not on .com worldwide. I think it is because you are only selling in OZ and advertising for pickup only.

It looks very good and made me think back to my AJS and my oil soaked jeans. They used to say if a British bike does not leak oil, its a fair warning that it needs some urgently!

I hope you find a good home for it!

Used to say that about old Harley's too. The joke was that they came with a chrome plated drip pan so you could just pour it back in the engine.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don,
I found it. Only seen if I log into ebay.com.au, not on .com worldwide. I think it is because you are only selling in OZ and advertising for pickup only.

It looks very good and made me think back to my AJS and my oil soaked jeans. They used to say if a British bike does not leak oil, its a fair warning that it needs some urgently!

I hope you find a good home for it!

Bit sad to see it go, but I need the money to finish the Suzuki project and I was only using it a couple of times a year. This one never leaked oil from the motor as I built it myself and silicone is a wonderful thing to fill gaps. But could never keep oil in the primary chain case due to the bad sheet metal design.

Cheers.
Don

 

[Matchless]

I have just had an interim reply from the sales manager, aftermarket, motorcycles, Athena in Italy. They have confirmed that they are looking into the issue and it may take 2 - 3 weeks for them to come back.
I will post the reply once received.

 

[Guest]

yeah, italians can be a bit slow on the customer service front
thanks for sharing

 

[Suzuki_Don]

yeah, will look forward to the reply. thanks Andre.

 

[Matchless]

I have received a reply from Athena on the latest gasket set, especially the head gasket. This may be of importance to anyone intending using the latest gasket kits. According to other research and this reply below, the reply seesm to indicate that the latest version of the OEM gaskets are complied to here. If you have older types aftermarket or NOS they may still use the rectangular o-ring gasket and the seals on the 4 outer studs.
Partsnmore sell these complete gaskets sets for $61.00 at the moment https://www.partsnmore.com/cat_index.php?model=gs&category=engine
Hope this helps someone.

Dear Mr. Andre

The kit P400510850951 have changed to P400510850951/1 because of the changes of the OEM part.
The head gasket you find in the kit P400510850951/1 correspond to Suzuki OEM n. 11141-49410.
With this new head gasket you can avoid to use the rubber part in the cam chain hole.
The 4 stud holes are bigger because in the old model you should use a dowel pin but with the new gasket you can avoid to use them.

I hope my explanation is clear enough, if any doubt please contact me

Best Regards

Paolo Ferrari
Sales Manager
Aftermarket Motorcycles
ATHENA S.p.A.
Tel. +39 0444 727 258
Fax. +39 0444 727 222
www.athena-ad.com

Da: Andre
Inviato: sabato 31 maggio 2008 10.18
A: athena@athena-spa.com
Oggetto: Inquiry application of gasket product


Dear Sir/madam,
I belong to a group of International enthusiasts that restore 30 year old Japanese Suzuki motor cycles and we have picked up a problem when using your latest Athena gasket sets and need some advice as no-one seems to be able to guide us on this. I will try to give as much detail as I can:
Last year, 2 September 2007, I ordered a complete gasket set P400510850951/1 dated 25/05/2006) from PartsNMore in the USA for a Suzuki Gs1000G 80-81. This arrived in good order and the gaskets are definitely of a high standard and quality.
The gasket set unfortunately did not have any parts list included nor did it have an instruction leaflet on use, just the warranty booklet. I am only overhauling the motor now and have found that there is no rectangular o-ring Suzuki part 09280-99003 included in the set. We do not put this rubber part in our kit.
On further investigation I found that the head gasket was a MLS (Multi layer Steel) type with Viton coating on the outer layers and differed in construction from the older original OEM head gasket.
I have just confirmed with another person in the USA who also has an older Athena gasket set, stock number P400510850951, dated 25/10/1995, that his head gasket is again different to mine, maybe being of an older technology.
Change 1 This obvious difference or change is on the outer 4 cylinder stud holes and the cam chain opening in the center. It seems as if the OEM and the older (1995) Athena head gasket used some sort of oil seal ring inside the stud holes around the outer 4 cylinder head studs and the newer one from Athena with a manufacturing lot date as 20060525 does not have any rubber oils seals for the outer 4 cylinder studs and the holes in the gasket are thus smaller. The 4 cylinder stud holes and the cam chain opening have not been changed during our raw material update.
Change 2 The head gaskets on older Athena shows that the center cam chain opening is cut wide enough to allow Suzuki o-ring gasket 09280-99003 to seal between the metal parts of the head and the cylinder. That is the same as the original OEM gasket and is shown as such in the Suzuki workshop manual.
The head gasket from the newer set dated 20060525 overlaps the position of the rectangular o-ring gasket that goes around the cam chain opening and seems to be designed to seal without using part 09280-99003 o-ring gasket. Can this be confirmed?
The OEM head gasket Suzuki part number has changed quite a few times and changes to the gasket are quite possible:
11141-49002
11141-49003
11141-49004
11141-49004-H17
11141-49410

Due to the fact that there are no parts list or any instructions and the head gasket is manufactured in a different way than the OEM and is now a MLS type, other than the earlier Athena head gaskets, I am concerned about incorrect usage.
Could you possible advise on the Suzuki part 09280-99003 not being included in gasket set P400510850951/1 (dated 2006/05/25) and head gasket 11141-49002 to 11141-49410 fitting or changes to clarify the issue.
It is my assumption that the part 09280-99003 was left out purposefully and is not required when using the new MLS gasket as that is now cut larger than the older type and covers the area for that o-ring, but other members seem to disagree and feel that the o-ring gasket should be used and installed to seal to the new MLS gasket.
In addition head gasket shows no provision for seals for the 4 outer studs and no cutout for the cam chain rubber o-ring gasket in the center, and which is also not included in this set. Does this gasket get installed without any seals on the outer 4 studs and thus overlapping the cam chain o-ring groove also without installing the o-ring?
I would like to clarify this confusion as some members are now advising others not to buy the Athena sets due to the fact that the gaskets are not properly made and I feel we are really looking at improvements here and not an error, but the lack of any documentation to inform users is causing a misunderstanding. If you can give clarity on this I will gladly share this on the forum with the other members, as I personally feel this is just new technology coming into play here and we just need the information to be shared on how to use the latest type of gasket.

Thanks in advance.
Andre
South Africa

 

[Guest]

great info matchless!

interesting that a gasket design would require you to drop using the original locating dovels on the head!
i had to read that like three times... and still have issues understanding the logic behind it