I've f%$#& had it with brakes

[J_C]

Last night I decided I had had it with the bike, and I was going to put it to rest for a few months. Nessism offered to come up, and I gave the bike a stay of execution.

This is what we know. It is not the MC, it is not the lines. It is something to do with the calipers. Oddly enough, both "caliper holders" had very strange grooves in the hole where the pins fit. While they did slide, each had a tendency to get hung up when the grooves in the pin would hit the grooves in the caliper holder. We are hypothesizing that this is the likely cause of the bad behavior. (Edit: I should also add that the grooves appear to correspond to the grooves in the pin, and where the grooves exist in the caliper holder the anodized finish has been worn away)

Since that part is no longer available from suzuki, looks like I'm in the market for new calipers.

 

[Guest]

Last night I decided I had had it with the bike, and I was going to put it to rest for a few months. Nessism offered to come up, and I gave the bike a stay of execution.

This is what we know. It is not the MC, it is not the lines. It is something to do with the calipers. Oddly enough, both "caliper holders" had very strange grooves in the hole where the pins fit. While they did slide, each had a tendency to get hung up when the grooves in the pin would hit the grooves in the caliper holder. We are hypothesizing that this is the likely cause of the bad behavior. (Edit: I should also add that the grooves appear to correspond to the grooves in the pin, and where the grooves exist in the caliper holder the anodized finish has been worn away)

Since that part is no longer available from suzuki, looks like I'm in the market for new calipers.

There's a set of 80 1100LT calipers on
Fleabay right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ame=STRK:MEWAX:IT&viewitem=&item=110276257017
I asked the guy last night if he was selling the sissy bar-luggage rack last night. For you of course.

 

[Nessism]

We made some good progress today, but did not fix the bike. As JC mentioned, the U-shaped Caliper Holder section with the holes that the sliding pins fit into has significant wear inside the holes. The entire piece is hard anodized, even inside the holes. The sliding pins have worn off the anodizing and there are groves present inside the bore corresponding with grooves in the pins. These grooves seem to be keeping the caliper from smoothly sliding back and forth.

To fix the bike JC needs two new Caliper Holders sections, and some new pins. The pistons look like new so that side of the calipers seem to be fine - the piston fits pretty snug but they slide in with finger pressure. After seeing how much wear is present inside those holes, I'm leery of old, high mileage calipers. Particularity ones with torn boots that seal off those pins - like those ebay calipers. Not sure about interchangeability between different models but time to study I think.

Ed

Edit: Jeff, in looking at part numbers for different Caliper Holders, yours are the same as the 80/81 1100E, but different from 850/1000GL. You might have to gamble on those ebay parts or look for some E model parts off a bike with the leading axle fork. Good luck.

Edit 2: found some caliper holders that should work. Guy has both right and left, hopefully he will combine shipping. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=110204932676&_nd1=&_fvi=1

 

[82Shafty]

We made some good progress today, but did not fix the bike. As JC mentioned, the U-shaped section with the holes that the sliding pins fit into has significant wear inside the holes. The entire piece is hard anodized, even inside the holes. The sliding pins have worn off the anodizing and there are groves present inside the bore corresponding with grooves in the pins. These grooves seem to be keeping the caliper from smoothly sliding back and forth.

To fix the bike JC needs two new Caliper Holders sections, and some new pins. The pistons look like new so that side of the calipers seem to be fine - the piston fits pretty snug but they slide in with finger pressure. After seeing how much wear is present inside those holes, I'm leery of old, high mileage calipers. Particularity ones with torn boots that seal off those pins - like those ebay calipers. Not sure about interchangeability between different models but time to study I think.

Ed

Edit: Jeff, in looking at part numbers for different Caliper Holders, yours are the same as the 80/81 1100E, but different from 850/1000GL. You might have to gamble on those ebay parts or look for some E model parts off a bike with the leading axle fork. Good luck.

Edit 2: found some caliper holders that should work. Guy has both right and left, hopefully he will combine shipping. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110204932676&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm39%26_nkw%3D110204932676%26_nd1%3D%26_fvi%3D1

I bet a machinist could true and sleeve the bores, we may have to think of this in the future if caliper mounts become scarce.


After the caliper was un-stuck, did anyone give a thorough inspection of the caliper piston bore to ensure there wasn't any scuffing?

I was also wondering if the new MC replacement has the same size piston in it as the old MC? If it is a smaller bore with the same stroke, it would take more pumping action as opposed to the old MC.

 

[Nessism]

I bet a machinist could true and sleeve the bores, we may have to think of this in the future if caliper mounts become scarce.


After the caliper was un-stuck, did anyone give a thorough inspection of the caliper piston bore to ensure there wasn't any scuffing?

I was also wondering if the new MC replacement has the same size piston in it as the old MC? If it is a smaller bore with the same stroke, it would take more pumping action as opposed to the old MC.

I'm sure a machinest could bore out the holes in the caliper holders and press in a bushing. Going that way would cost mucho $$.

The master is smaller than ideal but this is not the root of the problem. I think the proper master would help but it's not a show stopper.

Regarding the caliper bore itself, the seal is in the bore thus the bore itself is not a wear surface - the piston is. Fortunately, the piston looks good so no worry.

 

[TheCafeKid]

We made some good progress today, but did not fix the bike. As JC mentioned, the U-shaped section with the holes that the sliding pins fit into has significant wear inside the holes. The entire piece is hard anodized, even inside the holes. The sliding pins have worn off the anodizing and there are groves present inside the bore corresponding with grooves in the pins. These grooves seem to be keeping the caliper from smoothly sliding back and forth.

To fix the bike JC needs two new Caliper Holders sections, and some new pins. The pistons look like new so that side of the calipers seem to be fine - the piston fits pretty snug but they slide in with finger pressure. After seeing how much wear is present inside those holes, I'm leery of old, high mileage calipers. Particularity ones with torn boots that seal off those pins - like those ebay calipers. Not sure about interchangeability between different models but time to study I think.

Ed

Edit: Jeff, in looking at part numbers for different Caliper Holders, yours are the same as the 80/81 1100E, but different from 850/1000GL. You might have to gamble on those ebay parts or look for some E model parts off a bike with the leading axle fork. Good luck.

Edit 2: found some caliper holders that should work. Guy has both right and left, hopefully he will combine shipping. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=110204932676&_nd1=&_fvi=1

Ive Got a LATE MODEL caliper of an 82?? 850...that would do one side. Yours if ya need it... lemme know. ANything to help boys!

 

[J_C]

Thanks for all the links guys. I may have to follow up with some of these. Spending 40 bucks for those holders is kind of a drag; I hope they work and aren't worn!

Thanks tck, but I think we have different calipers?

Ed, do I really need new pins? They're listed for like 25 bucks a piece new....

 

[J_C]

Regarding the MC, we tried three different MCs, two of which were 5/8". So the 14mm may not be ideal, but it's certainly not the cause of these symptoms.

 

[Nessism]

Ed, do I really need new pins? They're listed for like 25 bucks a piece new....

$25? Are you sure? Crazy.

 

[J_C]

25 on alpha sport. 21 on bikebandit

If I do need new pins it would probably be cheaper to find some complete caliper bodies to swap out.

 

[Nessism]

Holy $hit. $100 for four pins. I'd pass, they weren't worn THAT bad (caliper holders are another matter though).

 

[J_C]

OK thanks Ed, since we're pretty positive that the holders are the problem, I'll go ahead and buy those two on ebay.

Again, thank you for your help today!!!

 

[82Shafty]

Let us know how she turns out!

 

[salty_monk]

Jeff,

Hope you got the PM... I have a full set of known good calipers off my 80G that you can have for the price of the new pads that are in them!

I was using them a week before Yosemite then upgraded to the Twinpots.

Dan

 

[J_C]

Dan, that sounds great (I assume they'll fit my bike? I know the G was somewhat different than the E/L from Ed's post...). It's kind of a shame because I rebuilt these calipers etc etc etc, but hell, if I can get complete known working calipers it's much better than spending the same amount on pieces to track down a problem. The only bummer is that now I have $80 platinum pads that probably wont fit the new calipers!

 

[salty_monk]

Jeff,

I believe the calipers I have are the sames as yours & the pads will fit (although mine has good ones with about 1k on them in there, EBC or similar from Z1 though for about $45 not gold plated ones like yours )

I think Suzuki used exactly the same calipers on all bike from 80 on up until the 1150. The only thing that changed was colours.

You can see them reasonably well in this cheesy pic..

Dan

 

[J_C]

Haha! Great shot!

No, the calipers are different on the 1100s. Where your calipers have a boxey oval where the piston retracts, ours is round. Check the photo in this auction:

According to EBC, the 1100s and the 1000s (except for G) share pads. But the Gs from 80 share with the Gs from 82-83.

Anyway, I was just wondering why the Gs had a different model, no worries as long as it bolts on and works with my rotors =D

I'll take this to PM since we're conversing in two different places right now...

 

[gryyphyn]

Holy $hit. $100 for four pins. I'd pass, they weren't worn THAT bad (caliper holders are another matter though).

I thought the same thing. Happened to get extremely lucky (hell, had to tear through my history because I couldn't find it through searching again!). There's two possibilities:

http://www.andersonvintageparts.com/index.php?crn=1&rn=96568&action=show_detail

and

http://www.andersonvintageparts.com/index.php?crn=1&rn=96568&action=show_detail

If the one is labeled correctly then the one without the #1 designation should be the correct part. I've sent a request to them to get clarification and I'll post again once I get a response.

I'd like to add that every single tip in this article is fantastic. I had gone through all of them (except drowning the system... ?) and came to the same conclusion: the axle pin with the bushing is the problem. I'm currently working towards a high-density elastomer replacement for that bushing for better performance.

Thanks everyone! You all rock!

Gryyphyn, out.ray:

 

[rustybronco]

Anderson vintage parts is bad news!
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=85641

 

[Nessism]

I thought the same thing. Happened to get extremely lucky (hell, had to tear through my history because I couldn't find it through searching again!). There's two possibilities:

http://www.andersonvintageparts.com/index.php?crn=1&rn=96568&action=show_detail

and

http://www.andersonvintageparts.com/index.php?crn=1&rn=96568&action=show_detail

If the one is labeled correctly then the one without the #1 designation should be the correct part. I've sent a request to them to get clarification and I'll post again once I get a response.

I'd like to add that every single tip in this article is fantastic. I had gone through all of them (except drowning the system... ?) and came to the same conclusion: the axle pin with the bushing is the problem. I'm currently working towards a high-density elastomer replacement for that bushing for better performance.

Thanks everyone! You all rock!

Gryyphyn, out.ray:

What ?bushing? are you referring to? There is one model of GS caliper where the sliding pins have a plastic collar around the middle, but the type mentioned in this thread do not.