LED vs. Incandescent blinkers

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I purchased a few Luxeon 3 watt LED bulb, 1156 type, from http://www.superbriteleds.com. They were pretty cheap, only $13 each. Here's a little video showing the LED and 1073 side by side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP7WUkQjQew

I think the LEDs are just as bright as the stock Stanly 1073 bulbs, except for perhaps at 5000 rpm. The LEDs have less dispersal (130?) and have a more focused beam so they don't fill the blinker lens as well as the incandescent bulb. I'm going to use some strategically placed mirror tape inside the lenses to see if I can get better dispersal. The LEDs do transition very quickly from the on state to the off state.

Superbriteleds.com also sells a 45 LED tower that is supposedly their brightest brake/turn signal bulb, has 360? dispersal, but costs twice as much.

I use a 5 watt Luxeon bulb in my tail light. It has LEDs on the side for better dispersal, but it seems those are not sold any more. That's too bad because I really like that bulb. I think it's brighter than most of the tail lights I see riding down the road.

Anyway, have a look. See what you think. I just felt like tinkering with cheap lighting.

EDIT: Here's another source, they have the 5w version (Eagle Eye 5): http://superlumination.com/1156_1157.htm

EDIT: I thought I'd try a few of those SMD LED towers. I just picked up four 42-LED towers from an Ebay seller for $2 plus $8 tax and shipping. I'll let you know how I like them.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

Are you adding a load resistor to maintain the flash rate and your self-cancelling signals
or are you changing your flasher and ditching the self-cancelling? :-k

.

 

[DanTheMan]

Are you adding a load resistor to maintain the flash rate and your self-cancelling signals
or are you changing your flasher and ditching the self-cancelling? :-k

.

The LED bulbs that go into the standard socket are made with a resistor in them. I think that's part of the cost. I hadn't bought any yet (they're on my list) because of the cost factor.

 

[cableguy]

As always, great video. The LED bulbs probably last much longer, but I thought the incandescent ones were easier to notice at night because of the way they tend to "dim down" bewtween flashes, as opposed to turn off instantly. At night it seems that the incandescent one would be easier to keep your eye on because of the filament glowing before and after the flash. The mirror tape is a good idea for the rears.

 

[chuck hahn]

For $13.00 i can get bulbs for at least 3 of my bikes.. Now your gonna have to ADD refective tape to get the same coverage spread as a $1.25 bulb. then you have to do trickery to assure that your electrical system isnt compromised and handles the bulbs wattage needs.. Somehow all that just doent add up to reasonable sense to me..just sayin.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the write up BassCliff.

I've decided to stay with my filament style indicators for the moment, but am seriously contemplating a LED replacement for the tail light bulb.

The Honda CB360 tail light I just put on only has one bulb in there compared to the GS' two bulb setup, so it'll be interesting to see if I can get a LED replacement that will compensate for that.

I recently discovered we have our own equivalent of super bright LED's over here too:

http://www.brightlightautoparts.com/

$AU15.40 for a 36 LED tower style tail/brake light.

 

[saltcitytattoo]

so i went with aftermarket led turn signals from flebay. what i did to make my turns work is drop my self cancel unit and stock flasher. then i made a new left hand switch and used momentary buttons for the turn switch. as for a flasher 4.99 at auto store i got a electronic flasher has to be electronic. works great.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Steve,

Are you adding a load resistor to maintain the flash rate and your self-cancelling signals or are you changing your flasher and ditching the self-cancelling? :-k

The self-cancelling feature on my turn signal was disabled long ago when I replaced a failed stock flasher with an off-the-shelf electronic flasher (Tridon Stant EP34). You proofread my write-up.

There may be a load resistor in the new bulbs but I'd have to read the spec sheet to be sure. But I suspect Dan is right.

All the best to you and yours,

Cliff

 

[ddaniels]

The one thing that will keep me from getting those LED's is that they did not show up as much as the incandecent in the daylight. In fact, to me they were barely noticeable. Plus, I also like the fact that the incandecent stay lit longer instead of instant on/off that the LED's exhibit. My 2cents.

 

[Steve]

Hi Steve, ... You proofread my write-up.

Two comments:
1. Yeah, I did proofread it, but that was before yesterday. You expect me to remember that?

2. LOTS of guys (and a few gals, I'm sure) have joined recently and not read your paper on the topic.
I was using my question as an introduction to the things that must be considered.

There may be a load resistor in the new bulbs but I'd have to read the spec sheet to be sure.

I think the only resistor that is in there is to limit the current (and voltage) to what the bulb needs. The current will be too low to activate the standard thermal flasher unit, yours might be different.

.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Well, I see nothing in the documentation for these lights there there is a load resistor built in.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-...ispPage&Page2Disp=/specs/115x-xLX3.htm#photos ...states "These bulbs use an active driver that keeps the power consumption constant over the entire operating voltage range." But nothing about an internal load resistor.

They do sell load resistors separately.

"One Load Resistor is required for each bulb. LED bulbs may cause some vehicles to indicate a bulb is burnt out (because of their low power consumption). Some cars indicate this by turning on a bad bulb indicator. This can be remedied with load resistors wired across the LED bulbs to simulate a filament bulb load."

But my current flasher doesn't care. If you haven't already, you can read why HERE (1MB PDF file, flasher relay replacement).

All in all, to me it seems these particular LEDs are OK but maybe not the best solution for this particular application. A wider dispersion LED or a different design for the reflective surfaces in the blinker assembly are necessary. So I'll be tinkering with them.

Thank you all for letting me share my thoughts. I hope it helps others make their own lighting decisions.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Jason the terminator]

I order the Eagle Eye 5 wide angle the other day. I will let you know how well it works.

 

[metalman]

Thanks for the video. Was contemplating this a an upgrade looks to be a downgrade to me as the incandescent was brighter and more noticeable. Not high jacking you thread but your bike looks and sounds great and love the look of windshield could you tell more about the shield or have you already.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Yes, Mr. Jason, I'd like to know how that bulb works for you. I also ordered some cheap 42 SMD LED tower bulbs. They are supposed to disperse light at almost 360 degrees and should fill the lens better. We'll see. I paid $2 plus shipping ($9) for 4 of them from an Ebay seller in Hong Kong (Eleseed).

For Mr. Metalman, I use a Slipstreamer S-03 Spitfire deflector size windshield. It's available at most aftermarket online vendors. The National Cycle deflector size screen is also very nice but costs a bit more.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[kcorbin]

I'd be curious to know how your lights work out brightness-wise as well.

I decided I wanted to turn my turn signals into running lights and through the process converted to LEDs. Looking for a cheap way to make the mod, trailer taillight converters seemed to be the best solution so I picked up a Hoppy 48845 at my local Advanced Auto Parts. Only about $13, so I thought this would be a a great cheap upgrade to improve my visibility.

The problem is it will only output 2.1 amps per side (didn't know the limitation when I originally bought it) and those 1073 bulbs pull 23 watts each so having both front and back lights brings me to 3.83 watts each side and the unit just couldn't power them. Not only that, but now the stock flasher wouldn't work because it wasn't pulling enough juice to activate it either.

So, picked up the FL2-RED flasher relay from SuperBright and 4 of the BA15 12-LED bulbs (1156-A12). The flasher worked like a champ as an almost drop-in replacement for the existing one. All I had to do was switch the wires on the original connector and it fit perfectly. *BUT*, the lights themselves were so much dimmer than the original lights. So, I sent them back and picked up the 24 bulb BA15 lights (1156-A24) and it's still not quite as bright as the originals but I had already blown my budget for this project and didn't want to try anything else for a while.

It still gives me much greater visibility though since I had no running lights previously.

To respond to some others' comments I think the fast on/fast off of the LEDs is actually more eye-catching that the slow on/off of traditional lights. Sit a light next time and without looking at them directly see if the luxury car with the LED taillights actually grabs your attention more.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I just got a set of amber 42 SMD LED "tower" units, 1156 type, in the mail yesterday. I'll be doing another comparison of the three different types of blinker bulbs I have now (incandescent Stanley 1072 stock bulbs, 3 watt Luxeon LED, and the 42 SMD LED tower) and posting up another video. Give me a day or two.

The new bulbs look similar to this:

You can get a pair for a dollar plus shipping all over Ebay. We'll see how they work.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I had enough time to make a little video after work today. I compared the Stanley 1073, Luxeon 3 watt LED, and the cheap 42 SMD LED that I got "2 for a dollar" from an Ebay seller in Hong Kong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tzCDZ2TDHw

(Wow! I know the camera adds 10 pounds, but it looks like there were three cameras on me.

)

I like the brightness of the Luxeon 3w LED but it doesn't fill the lens. The 42 SMD LED fills the lens but isn't as bright. Superbriteleds.com sells a 45 SMD LED bulb that they say is their brightest 1156/57 type bulb. If indeed it is brighter than the 3w Luxeon and fills the lens like the cheap SMD LED, then it might just be a "1073 killer".

The only thing is, the Superbriteled.com 45 SMD LED bulb is $25.

I'll have to save up my gig money in order to buy a set.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Dogma]

I noticed in the first video that the incandescent threw a fairly uniform circular spot on the garage door, but the LED made a more intense spot in the center with an intense circular ring around it. This makes me worry about the brightness when viewed off-axis from the signal. Say, from the vantage point of the driver I'm about to accidentally cut off. Is there an angle from the back of the bike where the LED has low visibility?

Something else to consider: Filling the lens may not be more desirable. My brother has designed LED tail lights and headlights for Truck Lite. (If you notice a truck's tail light with 5 LEDs in a circle, and a 6th in the center, he did that. It's a Truck Lite trademark, so only they do it.) He once told me that, for the same total lumens, a higher intensity light is more noticeable. So, for the same total light output, a bright spot is better than light distributed over 60 or 70 mm of lens. This has to be visible from anywhere behind the vehicle though. So, it's a balancing act. The little bumps inside the lenses (he called them "pillow lenses") are carefully designed to create a beam pattern conforming to a minimum standard for OEMs. I suspect the LED tower will come closer to duplicating that the incandescent does.

I'd love to see the pattern the tower makes against the garage door, vs the Luxeon and the incandescent. I'm also curious how the lens is lit from beside the bike, as in the case of a vehicle in the rider's blind spot (check over your shoulders, people!).

 

[bakalorz]

I'd be curious to know how your lights work out brightness-wise as well.

I decided I wanted to turn my turn signals into running lights and through the process converted to LEDs. Looking for a cheap way to make the mod, trailer taillight converters seemed to be the best solution so I picked up a Hoppy 48845 at my local Advanced Auto Parts. Only about $13, so I thought this would be a a great cheap upgrade to improve my visibility.

The problem is it will only output 2.1 amps per side (didn't know the limitation when I originally bought it) and those 1073 bulbs pull 23 watts each so having both front and back lights brings me to 3.83 watts each side and the unit just couldn't power them. Not only that, but now the stock flasher wouldn't work because it wasn't pulling enough juice to activate it either.

So, picked up the FL2-RED flasher relay from SuperBright and 4 of the BA15 12-LED bulbs (1156-A12). The flasher worked like a champ as an almost drop-in replacement for the existing one. All I had to do was switch the wires on the original connector and it fit perfectly. *BUT*, the lights themselves were so much dimmer than the original lights. So, I sent them back and picked up the 24 bulb BA15 lights (1156-A24) and it's still not quite as bright as the originals but I had already blown my budget for this project and didn't want to try anything else for a while.

It still gives me much greater visibility though since I had no running lights previously.

To respond to some others' comments I think the fast on/fast off of the LEDs is actually more eye-catching that the slow on/off of traditional lights. Sit a light next time and without looking at them directly see if the luxury car with the LED taillights actually grabs your attention more.

I am planning something similar, in that I want to add running lights front and back ...


One thing I found out is that its illegal (in PA at least, and I suspect nationwide) to have a constant on amber light facing rearward.
I don't know how likely you are to get stopped for this, but the cops definately technically can cite you for it.
Which makes using the stock turns as rear running lights a no go.

If you use red rear turns, then you can legally use them as running lights,
but then you get into the amber vs red turn signal debate (short version, amber turns are recognised as turns slightly quicker and more positively, reds could be a brakelight with a burned out bulb on other side, so the other driver has to watch the pattern a bit to confirm its a turn signal)

Which to me means that what you want in the back are: seperate amber turn signals and red running lights.

(Assuming you have the stock amber turns that you made into running lights: I am not saying what you did was bad, but just letting you know you could get ticketed)

 

[kcorbin]

Which to me means that what you want in the back are: seperate amber turn signals and red running lights.

(Assuming you have the stock amber turns that you made into running lights: I am not saying what you did was bad, but just letting you know you could get ticketed)

I'm aware of the technicality but not too worried about it really. Generally speaking, I'm almost ridiculously law-abiding when I'm driving/riding but this is one area where I'm willing to risk a pull-over. The amber lights stand out so much in a sea of red taillights it's worth it.

If that happens, I can easily pull the bullet connectors to the back signals (not the brake light!) and use arm signals until I'm out of that particular township, etc.

I would be truthful with the cop myself, but it would be pretty easy to say you must have had a flasher failure you weren't aware of.