Looking For Direction in 1100E Rebuild

[Mark M]

Guys,

I am at a crossroads with my 82 1100E. I have done a fair amount of major maintenance/mods:

- rebuilt forks with modified Progressive springs, modified damper rods
- new Ikon shocks
- degreed stock cams
- pod filters, carbs jetted
- S/S brake lines, new pads
- I will be fabbing a new exhaust megaphone and muffler this winter

It runs superbly but is extremely cosmetically challenged. The swing arm bushings are knackered and will need to be done this spring. So I am about to have to do some more major maintenance. And this is forcing me to pick a direction before I invest time and then decide I want something different afterwards...

My problem is that I am at the point of wanting more than the stock chassis and suspension are ever going to offer. I LOVE the engine, it is the finest street engine I have ever had the pleasure of riding with. BUT... the chassis is definitely 25 year old technology.

So I find myself seriously considering:

Option #1 - A GSXR front end swap and 17" wheels along with stripping the chassis, installing a solo tailpiece and other mods to cut weight and improve the handling. But, it will still be a big, heavy bike with limited handling due to the chassis itself. And this is a lot of work for limited returns.

Option #2 - Building myself a custom streetfighter style chassis, using the engine only from the GS along with GSXR running gear. This is even more work than #1, but the returns should be just about unlimited as long as I do a proper job with the chassis. I expect I could cut a solid 75lbs off the stock GS weight and end up with a wicked street bike using a fantastic classic engine.

Thoughts / opinions on the two options, cutting up a classic, anything else relating to this?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[tone]

Just my opinion :-D

Either option is good but if you have not built a full frame before i'd go for the first option as there WILL be about a million things you have not thought of involved in building a full frame & it could end up as one of those unfinished projects on ebay

With option 1 i'd be tempted to go with the usd front end & monoshock rear, 17" wheels etc purely for the braking & handling benifits, the styling is down to personal choice so i wont comment there :-D

option 2 full frame ....... if you do intend going with this & want to build it yourself ask loads of advice from those of us who've done it before & think carefully before starting IE have you got the required skills in welding/ fabricating etc & the tools to do it ?

hope this helps :-D

 

[bonanzadave]

If you have a nice shop and all the right tools and plenty of time & spare cash and the desire to invent and a spouse that doesn't have a million other things for you to do......then do them both. \\/

My options are limited so I would make the 82 a stock show piece and go get a GSXR or a Bandit.

I envy your desire. Theres nothing kewler than a well done custom old GS.... other than having done the work yourself.

 

[Mark M]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

I did not add in some details because the initial post was so long anyway. For building the frame, I am a mechanical engineer with years of machine design and structural analysis experience, so I am not worried at all about that aspect of it. Actually building it will be harder (for me), but I do know how to weld and either own or have access to a fair amount of equipment and experienced machinists to help me.

That said, it is STILL a huge commitment to build a new frame from scratch. That time is what makes me hesitate on starting, because I will want to actually finish it before I die and I am generally a busy guy, like a lot of us on here. I know I can find the time, but something else has to give it up and it is hard to shuffle priorities like that.

Bonanzadave, that is without a doubt the sweetest 1100E I have ever seen. Is that a GSXR swingarm in there as well as the 17" wheels and front end? My problem here is that to make mine look that good will take 75+% of the time, cost and effort that a complete new chassis would take. And I am trying to weigh the worth of that extra 25% to get to the full chassis level...:?

No spouse at all to complain about my time management and allocation choices, so that is no issue.:-D

One of my pet peeves with the GS is it is a long reach to the bars (for me, I am only 5'-9") and the seat/tank junction sticks out and interferes with my legs annoyingly. So, if I built a chassis, I would definitely sort those things to suit me, but that is a LOT of work to take on, just because of a couple of annoyances.

Ah, decisions, decisions.

Thanks for the input,
Mark

 

[Mark M]

Just for interest, Tony Foale is the man who most inspired me to build my own chassis. He has an excellent site for those who want to do some browsing.

http://www.tonyfoale.com

His gallery of street frames he built through the 70's and early 80's:

http://www.tonyfoale.com/gallery/roadbike/index.htm

Very cool stuff and a very sharp guy.

Mark

 

[Billy Ricks]

You could stiffen up the stock frame a bit with bracing.

 

[tkent02]

Your chances of building one that handles remotely as well as a modern bike on the first try are somewhere between slim and none.
Even Tony Foale took some trial and error I would guess. Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki surely did. Only Hareleys still use their original frame design, they don't know any better.
Get a GXXR, sell the 1100 to me, or fix it up some and ride it for what it is.

 

[Mark M]

Your chances of building one that handles remotely as well as a modern bike on the first try are somewhere between slim and none.
Even Tony Foale took some trial and error I would guess. Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki surely did. Only Hareleys still use their original frame design, they don't know any better.
Get a GXXR, sell the 1100 to me, or fix it up some and ride it for what it is.

tkent02,

I am not after an equivalent to a modern sportbike, that isn't going to occur with an engine as big and heavy as the 1100. But the stock frame is definitely 25 years old and works like it. I know I can vastly improve on it the first time out. It is not really black magic to get a decent bike out of it. The hard part is the last 5% of GP performance, not the first 95%.

I already have an 06 GSXR 1K, if I want modern I will ride it. I just want a really nice 1100E that goes and handles like I think it should.

Edit: Tony's first frame he built for a TZ250 won it's first race right off the truck. It's pretty hard to top that kind of a debut...

You could stiffen up the stock frame a bit with bracing.

Billy, I definitely will do that if I go with the stock frame. But it would still be big and heavy, if stiffer.

Mark

 

[80GS1000]

You have a couple of options here, way I see it.

If you like the look of your 1100, put Gixxer running gear on it, you'll love the improvement in handling and braking. Weld in a bit of reinforcement to stiff up the frame. More infor on that here: http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/ in the GSX/EFE/Katana section.

This is what I did on my 1000, mostly cause I dig the way the 1000 looks and the way the engine performs, and wanted some better suspension/tires/brakes on it. The bike dropped about 80 pounds in the process too, not bad.

Building a frame from scratch can be done, but what a PITA....

If you're mostly sold on the performance of the 1100, and want absolute maximum performance from the chassis and running gear, you could transplant your 1100 motor into a GSXR 1100 rolling chassis, then you get a monoshocked, stiff frame and GSXR running gear with minimal effort. That'd give you a streetfighter look too as those naked Gixxer 1100s can look like wicked 'fighters....see the projects forum on OSS for some examples/inspiration.

Imagine this bike but with your 1100 engine....

http://www.gsxr.ru/includes/download.php?id=9

 

[tkent02]

Knock yourself out.

 

[Mark M]

You have a couple of options here, way I see it.

If you like the look of your 1100, put Gixxer running gear on it, you'll love the improvement in handling and braking. Weld in a bit of reinforcement to stiff up the frame. More infor on that here: http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/ in the GSX/EFE/Katana section.

This is what I did on my 1000, mostly cause I dig the way the 1000 looks and the way the engine performs, and wanted some better suspension/tires/brakes on it. The bike dropped about 80 pounds in the process too, not bad.

Building a frame from scratch can be done, but what a PITA....

If you're mostly sold on the performance of the 1100, and want absolute maximum performance from the chassis and running gear, you could transplant your 1100 motor into a GSXR 1100 rolling chassis, then you get a monoshocked, stiff frame and GSXR running gear with minimal effort. That'd give you a streetfighter look too as those naked Gixxer 1100s can look like wicked 'fighters....see the projects forum on OSS for some examples/inspiration.

Imagine this bike but with your 1100 engine....

http://www.gsxr.ru/includes/download.php?id=9

GS,

Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you would chime in here. 80lbs is excellent, that should transform the way it handles all by itself.

I was thinking last night that I can approach this in stages:

1) GSXR front end and 17" rear wheel with stock swing arm
2) Monoshock GSXR back end
3) Custom frame

At each level I can see how it works and if I am happy with that. If not, just step up to the next level. I will have to re-read your thread for some of the details on the monoshock conversion before I decide on that or not. This will not hurt me, because I would use the GSXR front end and swingarm with my custom frame anyway. I will just have some extra time invested with the OEM frame before I get all the way to the custom frame stage and I can live with that.

I am not crazy about the GSXR chassis. They work OK, but the looks miss the mark to my eye. They are also pretty heavy and I bet a braced GS frame is close to the GSXR in performance with a lot less work than an engine transplant. So many choices... Good thing I am not on a timetable here.:-D

Knock yourself out.

tkent, you bet. I will try to take pics when I get to the project and keep a diary going to post later.

Mark

 

[Richie]

mark m, that is a really nice gs!

richie

 

[Guest]

First off, Mark, Beautiful bike

GS motor in an R chassis is difficult, the GS motor is something like 2 inches longer, nothing that a sawsall and tig cannot handle...

Keep the twin shocks, monoshocks kill the old school vibe IMO.

Maybe consider a GS 1000 chassis to start with it may fit your size better.

I have been wanting to do a project like this for years, want it to be around 130/140 hp. Something that handles decent, but more of a cruiser. A Harley for my asthetic if you will. I have a lot of the parts already, basically waiting for a cheap roller to come my way .

 

[Mark M]

mark m, that is a really nice gs!

richie

Hey guys, the perfect example on the last page (champagne/red trim) is BonanzaDave's, not mine. I would be extremely proud of that one being in my garage, but mine is seriously cosmetically challenged and looks nothing like that...

Mark

 

[Mark M]

First off, Mark, Beautiful bike

GS motor in an R chassis is difficult, the GS motor is something like 2 inches longer, nothing that a sawsall and tig cannot handle...

Keep the twin shocks, monoshocks kill the old school vibe IMO.

Maybe consider a GS 1000 chassis to start with it may fit your size better.

I have been wanting to do a project like this for years, want it to be around 130/140 hp. Something that handles decent, but more of a cruiser. A Harley for my asthetic if you will. I have a lot of the parts already, basically waiting for a cheap roller to come my way .

I am not considering the GSXR chassis as an option. If I am fitting that fantastic engine into anything other than the OEM chassis, it will be a custom creation of my own.

My first stage will be GSXR front end and a 17x4.5 GSXR rear wheel with a 160 tire and the stock frame. I currently have overlength IKON shocks, but they are nowhere near top drawer and I think I would seriously consider some Ohlins piggybacks when I get that far. I will see where I go from there...

130hp is not that hard from the 1100 4 valver. I did a lot of research a few years ago and 36mm flatslides and stage 1 cams will get it around 125-130rwhp depending on details. If you can find a 1150 head you would for sure be over 130rwhp because the bigger exhaust valves really open it up. Some light porting (my choice would be filled ports ala Motoman's site) and you would be close to your 140hp number with tons of torque.

Mark

 

[Mark M]

Oh yeah, if anybody is sitting on a complete 93-98 GSXR 1100 front end and wanting to unload it, PM me. I am currently in shopping mode and have cash in hand for the right parts.:-D

Mark

 

[Guest]

"Bonanzadave, that is without a doubt the sweetest 1100E I have ever seen. Is that a GSXR swingarm in there as well as the 17" wheels and front end? My problem here is that to make mine look that good will take 75+% of the time, cost and effort that a complete new chassis would take. And I am trying to weigh the worth of that extra 25% to get to the full chassis level...:?"

Mark,

Thats actually my bike. I very much appreciate Dave suggesting it as a well done GS. That's a 99 Bandit swingarm (ala Katman's concept) with a RF900 170 rear wheel and a complete 98 GSXR 1100 Front Assy. It also has the Ohlins piggy backs, ZX12r rear sets, RS38s,Yosh Stage I cams and Yosh 1133 pistons, HMP ported head, and Dyna Ignition and 530 chain. With the Yosh header it dynoed at 120 hp. Which sounds conservative.

Thats also brand new old stock body work which I picked up from Andersen for a song before he went south with his customer service. That picture was taken this summer with 102K miles. I've owned it since new and have built it slowly over time. The Yosh decal on the rear is just a Photo chop.

If your a bike addict like me and need to ride then I suggest you get another bike to ride in the mean time, so you can take your time building the GS of your dreams. If your more into building than riding then you can skip that suggestion.

I'm extremely happy with the final product and it handles very well. Depending on what I'm going to do and where I'm going, I switch back and forth between the GS and my first generation FZ1. They are giving used FZ1's away and they make a great two up sport tourer. My wife keeps begging me to add back some passenger pegs on the GS which will probably happen this winter. I'm having Ohlins' rework the shocks and add beefier springs soon.

The thing that I love about my GS is its "feel". It really is fun to ride. Going through the gears is more like an old 70's Chevelle muscle car than a modern street bike. I'm not a big fan of loud exhausts, but I have to admit it sounds great with that short Yosh.

If you building for the fun of it like I do then have a ball. If you want ultimate performance then buy something new or even five years old. I really don't think you could convert an old GS into something that can touch the handling or smoothness of new bikes. While we think the late 90s era GSXR1100 forks are slick, owners of modern GSXRs think they handled like a cow.

Good luck or your build!!

 

[Mark M]

Thats actually my bike. I very much appreciate Dave suggesting it as a well done GS.

<snip>

If your a bike addict like me and need to ride then I suggest you get another bike to ride in the mean time, so you can take your time building the GS of your dreams.

<snip>

If you building for the fun of it like I do then have a ball. If you want ultimate performance then buy something new or even five years old.

Thanks for clearing that up, it is a truly gorgeous piece of work. I am indeed an addict, but check out my sig. The GS is not a daily driver (mostly due to it's condition, it is very enjoyable to ride) and I am covered on and off road in the meantime.:-D

I agree, there is no way the GS will compete with new stuff. I don't want it to. But I do want to get it so that the age of the chassis is not so apparent on every ride... Just updating to decent suspension (you are correct that the 90's GSXR stuff is not top drawer, just decent) and getting 17" radials with real brakes will be a huge step in the right direction.

Mark

 

[Billy Ricks]

Use the CBR954 triple setup like Katman describes in his thread. It's stepped to give you extra ride height that you won't get out of a GSXR triple. I used one on my latest round of mods. You'll need to alter your upper bearing like I describe in one of the last posts in Katman's sticky thread.

Just ditching a stock exhaust can save you 20 lbs easy and if you can get your hands on a stainless exhaust you can get exhaust weight down to about 10 lbs.

 

[Griffin]

Every time isleoman's GS1100 comes up in a thread, I just stare at it for a few moments. I'm going to put it up again:

That is, without a doubt, the nicest custom GS1100E I've ever seen. Lots of truly functional mods to improve the rideability of the machine, but tastefull and skillfully done so as not to take away from the overall lines and impression of the bike.

That is a work of mechanical art, both beautiful and functional. I would recommend anyone looking at modding their 1100 take a good look at it, and really think about what they are trying to accomplish with their mods.