• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

My gs450L starter motor does not respond

to get extra jump to what I THINK is a good motorcycle battery
Click to expand...
you don't need to "jump it to the motorcycle battery"- just use the car battery. It'll even charge up from the bike's system if the 450's charging system is in good fettle....

The "load test" for a motorcycle battery is starting the bike up, as far as I'm concerned...ideally, with the headlamp on...though disconnecting the "legislated always-on headlamp" might get you over the top someday.

Charge that iffy mc battery up at 1-2 amps overnight and if it then can't do the job, it's thrashed too.
 
Previously I had slow-charged the MC battery with a battery maintenance charger and it then showed 13.15 volts but only activated the relay a couple times and no starter motor action. Today, I tried jumping with my good car battery in the van ... and got no favorable action or sounds either! It seemed the relay was just making a "buzzing" sound and the starter motor was making a "creaking noise". I am wondering if by some chance I have a direct short from the positive screw terminal coming out of the case .... but also shorting out by also touching the case? I used the rubber base and rubber O-ring around the protruding brushplate screw to isolate the screw from the grounded case ... but that is all I can think of to explain what's happening?

At this point I think I need a new battery and a new starter relay? Then again, maybe the relay would start to click in again? I will check the positive screw terminal for any potential issues.
 
Has any of this testing been done with the cover off the starter? :-k

I know, it seems silly, but I had a problem with my wife's bike, where the terminal on the starter that holds the large wire was touching the inside of the cover. Sometimes it would work, other times it would not.
dunno.gif


.
 
So now I have pulled the MC battery out and currently slow-charging again. I removed the starter motor cover and saw I had a rubber boot over the starter positive terminal ... so no short there. I then removed the attaching nuts and washers and reassembled using a tiny rubber base for a mounting nut that originally was there but not put back on the 1st try. I tried to jump the starter motor without the MC battery in there and using my good car battery in my Van which starts my 3.8 size engine. I attached the other end of the cables to the right side starter relay terminal and the neg to a large nut to the engine. I turned on the ign. switch and pressed the starter button and heard the clicking sound of the relay ... but nothing else. The starter motor was working when off the MC and after putting the new parts on. I have a vaiable volt power supply and the starter motor started to turn before I applied 5 volts and got faster as I headed towards 10 volts. I do remember applying a 12 volt battery power to a different motor years ago and seeing almost jump out of my hand. I stopped testing this motor when I saw it spinning on lower voltage and I hope it is up to par now, but don't know that for a fact.

So all I get for ANY battery connected when attempting to spin the starter motor and start the engine is several clicks ... and the a buzzing sound from the relay and some kind of weird groan from the starter motor. The SM is bolted down well with the 2 mounting screws.

Any more suggestions? My next step may be to buy a new MC battery ... but my big car battery didn't seem to be able to get the job done either??! I might have to take the starter motor out again and do more inspection and testing? Frustration is setting in.
 
It just occurred to me that if I had connected the positive jumper cable to the LEFT side of the relay ... and the NEG jumper cable to a grounded part of the bike frame ... wouldn't that drive the starter motor directly and either it would spin OR NOT?
 
dennco2 said:
It just occurred to me that if I had connected the positive jumper cable to the LEFT side of the relay ... and the NEG jumper cable to a grounded part of the bike frame ... wouldn't that drive the starter motor directly and either it would spin OR NOT?
Click to expand...
Can't tell from here which terminal is which, but the terminal that goes directly to the starter would be the one. :encouragement:

.
 
if I had connected the positive jumper cable to the LEFT side of the relay ... and the NEG jumper cable to a grounded part of the bike frame ... wouldn't that drive the starter motor directly and either it would spin OR NOT
Click to expand...
Yes. as steve says it's one or the other! or just get a screw driver and short across the two posts...but there will be sparks so no gas fumes around .

But I don't understand why you didn't just apply full current the starter before you put it back in ...
I have a vaiable volt power supply and the starter motor started to turn before I applied 5 volts and got faster as I headed towards 10 volts. I do remember applying a 12 volt battery power to a different motor years ago and seeing almost jump out of my hand. I stopped testing this motor when I saw it spinning on lower voltage and I hope it is up to par now, but don't know that for a fact.
Click to expand...
you don't have to hold it in your hand if you don't want to...let it roll around on the floor or under a clamp but it's really no worse to hold than an unhappy squirrel...

by not bench testing simply, you've failed to block unnecesary paths of doubt.... knowing it works would mean you only have the next two in the chain..solenoid and starter clutch. Right now, you know it does something when you fiddle with a dial, but you aren't sure it has the all-important instantaneous torque...
 
Last edited:
Gorminrider said:
Yes. as steve says it's one or the other! or just get a screw driver and short across the two posts...but there will be sparks so no gas fumes around .

But I don't understand why you didn't just apply full current the starter before you put it back in ... you don't have to hold it in your hand if you don't want to...let it roll around on the floor or under a clamp but it's really no worse to hold than an unhappy squirrel...

by not bench testing simply, you've failed to block unnecesary paths of doubt.... knowing it works would mean you only have the next two in the chain..solenoid and starter clutch. Right now, you know it does something when you fiddle with a dial, but you aren't sure it has the all-important instantaneous torque...
Click to expand...

UPDATE: I have delayed working on my starter motor problem ... until yesterday. I pulled the starter motor out of the bike AGAIN ... so I could open it up and inspect. The armature commutator had a damaged partially curled up segment so I filed down the high spot and smooth filed and sanded the whole com as it rotated in a tiny lathe to clean up the black and grungy brush track area. Too big to cut with cutter. Anyway, I also had a brush spring that was slightly deformed and lost 50% of tension .... so I re-bent it as best I could for more tension but got only 75% of the other spring. I then re-assembled the starter motor and tested it on a variable power supply AND the motorcycle battery. As before, it got up to full speed immediately ... but not with the instant torque I have seen in other motors that you can barely hang onto when applying 12 volts. Otherwise, it seems to be running smooth and cool ... but I don't want to bother putting it back in if won't turn the engine over!

I have NO idea how the com got so messed up from my 1st effort to fix. It spun freely with power and then I installed it and my 1st attempt to start it resulted in a small starter movement ... then nothing. When I finally pulled it out again yesterday, the armature could not rotate at all due to the raised com segment problem ... now fixed but not professionally. Any recommendations on what to do here? Buy another motor used or rebuilt ... known to be good? Any for sale here in this group?
 
 
Yeah, I am convinced this one is near dead. Good advice to give up on it. I hope I get lucky with another used one with full power.
 
tom203 said:
Get a used one....here’s a list of bikes that shared this starter motor

Click to expand...

I was able to buy another used starter with the same model number on Ebay. It definitely ran at a higher rpm with 12 volts ... than my old one. It definitely did not try to torque out of my hand when tested. Anyway, I installed it and put the rest of the bike back together .... and charged the old battery up to it's peak showing 12.88 volts. This poor bike hasn't been started in over 1.5 years. It finally started after lots of cranking. The starter/battery combo was slightly weak with so-so crank speed. I've seen way better on other bikes.

Anyway, I just took it on a short ride. It ran fine as long as I kept the rpms up over idle. My idle adjust knob is stuck. Also, on deceleration I started to hear a howling sound come and go ... and started to suspect the starter clutch hanging up intermittently? Have other's had that type problem?? If that is my problem .... how to fix??

Other than those problems, I really enjoyed riding this bike again after sitting so long!! 36 years old and still trying to hang in there generally speaking. 2 years ago, I had rebuilt the carbs (twice to get it right) and had a smooth idle and rpm acceleration and shut down. Don't have that now, but I'm going to ride some more and see if that problem clears up just by running. I would hate to have to take those carbs off AGAIN and blow all those little passageways as before!! But I'll do it ..... later if needed and recommended by others in this group.
 
Last edited:
You will want to check your charging system first and make sure it’s running correctly. Check these settings with a multimeter at the battery and report back here

Key off
Key on
While cranking
While running at idle
While running at 4000rpm
Key off
 
Many here will probably disagree, but about a half can of Seafoam in the gas sure can't hurt. What you got to lose?
 
rphillips said:
Many here will probably disagree, but about a half can of Seafoam in the gas sure can't hurt. What you got to lose?
Click to expand...
I hope he gets lucky like this...but if carbs weren?t completely drained two years ago ,or he didn?t use ethanol fuel ...carb fun awaits!
 
cowboyup3371 said:
You will want to check your charging system first and make sure it’s running correctly. Check these settings with a multimeter at the battery and report back here

Key off
Key on
While cranking
While running at idle
While running at 4000rpm
Key off
Click to expand...

The GS450 was extremely hard to start and I used up most of the bike battery trying to get it started. Then I jumped my Dodge Van battery to the bike battery and tried several crank attempts, till the engine started. After I knew I could get an engine start ... I disconnected the Van battery. Then I discovered the right cylinder was not firing ... so I pulled the spark plug out and cleaned it and re-installed and then got both cylinders firing!.... and then I was able to hold a decent 1,200 rpm idle with a slight amount of throttle .... then I opened the throttle for 4,000 but the rpms hung there and higher till I turned off the ignition! After restart, idle was resumed but same result going to 4,000. The engine is hard to start ... with choke totally off and throttle barely above idle or it just cranks. When grounding the plugs to the cylinder heads, the spark looked weak and intermittent ... especially for the right side cylinder. Yesterday, I got a short ride out of it and all seemed good ... till I started hearing the howling sound which I am guessing is an intermittent problem with the starter clutch. Today I wouldn't want to even try to ride it.

Anyway, I was able to get some battery and charging numbers ... which don't look too good either. Any advice is welcome.

Key Off .....13.14 volts
key On ....... 12.12 volts
while cranking ... 9.96
running at idle .... 12.40
running at 4,000 .... 12.95
key off ...... 12.46
 
You?re not charging. At all.

Read my Charging System sorted thread linked in my signature. It?s a typical story. You?re in good company.

Also, if your carbs were sitting for 2 years with ethanol gas in them, proper cleaning is in order. Proper clean means a full strip and dip. Not just blowing carb cleaner through the passages. CV carb rebuild tutorial can be found on BikeCliffs Website.

you may have an air leak in the intake intake boots causing hanging idle.
 
Last edited:
Rich is right; your charging system is in serious need of testing/troubleshooting. Follow the guide in his signature that another member developed and start going through the required maintenance
 
Yes, I have a lot of work to do to get this running right. Against my better judgement, I took this bike out for a couple mile ride. I had the hanging rpm problem again but somewhat controlled by being in gear and I got that howling noise after revving over 4,000 rpms then decelerating engine revs. I now suspect my cam chain tensioner is the problem, so I printed out a solution from an old poster on this GS forum. Lots to learn and lots to do!
 
With great advice offered here in this forum ... I now have solved my starting problem, so will close this Topic thread. Now that it starts again, I NOW realize I have other issues which I will attempt to deal with one at a time ,,, like cam chain adjustment and clean the carbs (AGAIN) as well as figure out why it's not charging the battery .... and attend to any air leaks. Maybe one last question here .... does the cam chain tensioner have to come OFF to reset and readjust tension? I couldn't compress the plunger rod very far inwards when I had it out and now wish I took it apart for inspection, etc.
 
Last edited:
Some comments:

- Barley Barley charging. Yes, you are going to have hard starting, and maybe not get it started to get back home.
Yes, do the stator checks, and other charging system checks.

- Howling, you say. Most often cam chain tensioner problems with the chain being loose are described as "slapping" noises.
"Growling" or "howling" are often the starter motor clutch not releasing so are driving the starter motor way way faster it ever is suppose to go (and will come apart).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ukjules
Starter motor needs a tap to work recently
Replies
18
Views
268
ukjules
ukjules
oldGSfan
Something hinky with GS1100E starter or starter clutch?
Replies
16
Views
317
oldGSfan
oldGSfan
exdirtbiker
2 GS750 engines
Replies
5
Views
146
exdirtbiker
exdirtbiker
S
What you need to remove to get to the starter motor - 1981 GS650G
Replies
2
Views
92
seinwave
S
E
'83 1100E very hard starting, starter motor switching directions
2
Replies
31
Views
631
eldevigo
E
Back
Top